Player homebrew question

[Belzbet]

Hey all one of my players is wanting me to allow a feat... I dont really know if its going to be balanced or not... here it is... Its for a monk whose going to have well over 36 STR (with items etc) and who is taking improved natural attack (unarmed strike) multiple times and he will get his attack upto 12d8 or more (he is a large monk)...

Improved ki blast
Prerequisites: Combat Reflexes, Fiery Fist, Elemental Fist, Combat Expertise, ki blast, Improved Unarmed Strike,Stunning Fist, Base Attack +12, Wisdom 15+
Benefit: Taking a full round action in which you do not move you may make a full attack upon a single target within range of this ability. For every unarmed strike you have you may make a single ranged touch attack on the target for your unarmed strike damage. Treat this attack as a thrown weapon for the purposes of calculating attack and damage. Your range is 10 feet per point of Strength Modifier. Each attack consumes one use of stunning fist
Special: This attack is pure physical damage and your ki abilities such as ki strike magic or ki strike lawful are not applied. You may use this feat a number of times per day equal to your wisdom modifier. When you take this feat you gain an additional use of stunning fist. This feat may be selected as a fighter bonus feat

 

[Ahnehnois]

It's called "improved Ki blast" but it doesn't much resemble ki blast. It is also much, much more powerful, and creates a number of questions. For example, does an Amulet of Mighty Fists or the like apply to this damage? Does your strength? Why can't you move during this special full-round action? Why isn't it a set damage value like Ki blast? And why isn't this force damage like the original Ki blast?

It's quite bizarre. You've got a full attack ranged touch with monk damage, which screams abuse, but that damage doesn't penetrate DR as well as the Ki blast or the monk's original melee attack. It's also rather laboriously worded. I'd send it back to the drawing board.

 

[Empirate]

Lots of little things wrong, or rather, unusual and roundabout and unnecessarily complicated and self-contradictory with this homebrew feat. Apart from that, it's just short range damage a few times per day, on a Monk of all things. At level 16+. Balance-wise there's nothing wrong with it.

I'd posit the following wording to the player, see if he likes it:

"Improved ki blast
Prerequisites: Combat Reflexes, Fiery Fist, Elemental Fist, Combat Expertise, ki blast, Improved Unarmed Strike,Stunning Fist, Base Attack +12, Wisdom 15+
Benefit: When you make an unarmed strike on your turn, you may make it as a ranged touch attack by spending a daily use of Stunning Fist. You deal force damage equal to your normal unarmed strike damage (including Str and other damage bonuses) with this attack. It has a range of 30' with no range increment."

There: simple, elegant (more or less), easy to use. The weird things (damage type, costs and uses per day, action used, range) are all done away with. If you want to make full attack Improved Ki Blasts, just spend multiple uses of Stunning Fist (you have many at this level). You can still play around with range, cost to use, prereqs etc. so it feels balanced to your group.

 

[Ahnehnois]

Balance-wise there's nothing wrong with it.

Full damage with a touch attack is somewhat questionable, but given that we're talking about a high-level monk feat with substantial prereqs, I do agree that it's unlikely to be overpowered. Just not well written.

 

[N'raac]

Full damage with a touch attack is somewhat questionable, but given that we're talking about a high-level monk feat with substantial prereqs, I do agree that it's unlikely to be overpowered. Just not well written.

To what extent are the "substantial prereqs" intened to prevent others from using this? I doubt the Monk in question is lacking any of these. Why are they essential to an Improved Ki Blast? The Ki Blast needs a 13 DEX - maybe Improved should need a 15 (like the WIS requirement has increased). Why Combat Reflexes, Combat Expertise and/or Elemental Fist? Other than the prereq's, I like Empirate's model. If there are more prereq's, I think they should chain with the Ki Blast prereq's, not tack on a bunch of random feats with no apparent link to this ability.

Given how restricted Elemental Fist is (no more than once per round; one per day per monk level), is "just toss off a Stunning Fist and go wild" the right usage restriction?

 

[Ahnehnois]

If there are more prereq's, I think they should chain with the Ki Blast prereq's, not tack on a bunch of random feats with no apparent link to this ability.

Agreed. As with the effects, I think the prereqs should be modeled more closely after the non-improved version and should fit the ability.

Given how restricted Elemental Fist is (no more than once per round; one per day per monk level), is "just toss off a Stunning Fist and go wild" the right usage restriction?

Probably not. But my big issue here is a full attack that does full damage with a touch attack.

 

[monboesen]

over 36 STR (with items etc) .....attack upto 12d8

With stats like that I would say you are way past the point where balance is any concern at all. Let him have his cake and eat it too.

 

[Belzbet]

Probably not. But my big issue here is a full attack that does full damage with a touch attack.

That is my issue too, also considering he is going to have an ungodly damage (12d8+13 at least, 12d8 damage is actually easy to acheive with a large monk all it takes is three improved natural attack feats...).. I dont want to diallow a feat just because a player has a deadly combo (meaing this feat isnt that overpowered alone but combined with what the player is planning it may get out of hand)

 

[Jackinthegreen]

Keep in mind Improved Natural Attack can't be taken multiple times for the same weapon, unless the DM says otherwise. Are you allowing it, given that the feat specifically doesn't normally allow it?

Besides that problem, the feat is poorly written and put together. It says "Each attack consumes one use of stunning fist," which needs to be clarified as to whether it means each individual attack, or each full attack.

As far as balance goes, are you comfortable with that kind of damage? Can you still challenge the party such that the monsters last at least a couple rounds before dying, while being full attacked by that kind of damage? If you can't comfortably do that, I'd recommend not allowing him to have that much damage, and definitely not allow the homebrew feat. If you can challenge them like that, by all means go for it! He's a monk after all, so he's going to need all the help he can get.

 

[Belzbet]

Keep in mind Improved Natural Attack can't be taken multiple times for the same weapon, unless the DM says otherwise. Are you allowing it, given that the feat specifically doesn't normally allow it?

That changes everything I thought it could be taken multiple times...