D&D 5E Player's Handbook Alpha *Spoilers*

[DEFCON 1]

We have ignore lists. You can choose to use them at any time.

Or, you know, get married. 'Cause you to go at it like an old married couple. :/

Most old married couples have already put each other on their Ignore lists.

 

[jgsugden]

1.) If it isn't final, complaining about it is a bit premature. If you don't think it was premature, you may wish to rethink what you consider to be premature... if you know what I mean.

2.) The goal of the new edition is NOT to give us what we like about prior editions or to simulate reality. It is to give us a good game that will be fun to play. Sometimes, simulating reality doesn't make for a fun game. And, clearly, nothing in any prior edition was universally loved. They're professional game designers. Before you judge, try their results for a few months. As the 20th century Shakespeare once wrote: Try it, try it, you will see....

3.) It is going to take a while to synthesize the rules. For example, if a feat says, "You may do X", it may not mean that PCs can't do it without the feat - it may just mean it is one of the optional rules and certain DMs might not allow it without the feat. I imagine that the value of feats will change when you factor in certain optional rules or exlude others.

4.) Looking at the Alpha PHB is disrespectful to the people that are working hard to make you a good game. It is not intended for your eyes. Someone broke an NDA to put it into the torrent world. Basing comments on it will cause confusion once the real PHB is released. The right thing to do is delete it and wait. [Personally, I think it might be a nice idea if everyone that posts knowledge of the Alpha PHB gets a site ban.]

 

[Agamon]

4.) Looking at the Alpha PHB is disrespectful to the people that are working hard to make you a good game. It is not intended for your eyes. Someone broke an NDA to put it into the torrent world. Basing comments on it will cause confusion once the real PHB is released. The right thing to do is delete it and wait. [Personally, I think it might be a nice idea if everyone that posts knowledge of the Alpha PHB gets a site ban.]

I'd be cool with that, as long as it came with a grandfather clause. There's already a no-talking-about-fileshare rule, this is pretty much that.

 

[Bryk]

It's not difficult to find, but it's really only a curiosity - and something to whet the appetite, because there are some lovely bits in it. As has been said, it's not something anyone should be using to run a game. It's fascinating to see the progression from the final public playtest to the alpha leak to the Basic rules, though!

I'm running Basic > Alpha PB > D&D Next rules just fine. SO if it is in basic, we follow that, next if it is in Alpha we use that then if it is in not in either and it still might make it from Next then we use that (very little).

 

[ZombieRoboNinja]

The alpha leak doesn't reveal any big changes in design philosophy from the playtest, but it does provide some concrete evidence of stuff a lot of people worry won't be in 5e. Anyone worried about fighters not being good defenders or not having maneuvers could have those worried assuaged. Likewise, anyone worried that there aren't enough badass supernatural martial characters could look at the shadow monk or totem barbarian and be happy. And anyone holding out hope that sorcerers will look mechanically very different from neo-vancian wizards will probably be disappointed.

But complaining about the details and exact wording of stuff in the alpha is certainly premature.

 

[Ruin Explorer]

Or, you know, get married. 'Cause you two go at it like an old married couple.

I'm waiting for him to ask! I'm a very simple old-fashioned girl at heart, don't you know!

Perhaps I should not have spun it as a negative question. How about this: Given in general you like D&D and have a genuine desire to like 5e (though that may eventually go unrealized), what needs to happen to get more positivity and enthusiasm? Not a huge amount more, just a noticeable amount more?

Okay, good way to put it.

If I had a positivity meter towards 5E, it's fair to say it had been trending towards the positive over the last couple of weeks or so. The art preview for example, I thought most of the art was mediocre-to-good (which is an improvement from 4E, sad to say, but I will never claim 4E had great art, because that'd be a bald-faced lie - it had a number of great pieces, like the "Wood Elf Performing a Ritual" one, but overall the quality was super-blah - not bad, not good). Tiefling preview was 7/10 for me, which as a PICKY BASTARD when it comes to Tieflings, is really a high score, and it was edging in on an 8. Basic in general made me more positive, because whilst flawed it's clearly workable. The Hermit background was totally grade-A awesome, as I said in that thread, too. Can't get much more positive. So y'know, I am enthusiastic/positive about stuff, but people tend to ignore that!

So I was quite cheerful. Then we had tidbits from the Alpha PDF leaking - and they were largely positive. Then I actually saw the Alpha PDF, and oh god, the majority of the Feats there, I would classify as horrid. Even recent stuff before them was a lot better. I won't go over that again, but they're bad, and really surprisingly so, like, OUCH. I anticipated straight improvements from October - this is straight-up worse in a variety of ways.

There is one curious thing that gives me a shred of hope - some of the Feats seem way more "complete" than others - the ones that new to this, like Mage Slayer or even War Caster (which I think is OP but does seem like what we were promised, Feat-wise), they seem like "proper" Feats, not horrible 3E junk (as I said, not even 3.5E level!), so perhaps 5E was moving back in that direction. It's weird that they stripped-down the other feats though, making them more boring and less about making the PC you want.

ANYWAY, back on your question - to make me feel more positive about 5E, I think I want to see more previews, preferably of cool stuff that HAS changed since that Alpha. Things that are improved, or that are just awesome, like the Hermit background. I'd really like to see some proper magic item write-ups, too. And to be totally honest, a big part of me is waiting to hear what they've actually put in the DMG. But yeah, previews, cool stuff - being told the Alpha PDF is nonsense would help (but I imagine that they think that'd just draw attention to it, so that won't happen).

 

[Ruin Explorer]

The alpha leak doesn't reveal any big changes in design philosophy from the playtest, but it does provide some concrete evidence of stuff a lot of people worry won't be in 5e. Anyone worried about fighters not being good defenders or not having maneuvers could have those worried assuaged. Likewise, anyone worried that there aren't enough badass supernatural martial characters could look at the shadow monk or totem barbarian and be happy. And anyone holding out hope that sorcerers will look mechanically very different from neo-vancian wizards will probably be disappointed.

Yeah, but it also provides evidence exactly as concrete that some stuff will be pretty face-palm-y, like the Eldritch Knight* which is an astonishing waste-of-space (spoiler: basically it's a 3E-style Fighter/Mage but slightly less crummy - not a lot, but a little - it still has no magic at all until level 3!), that the Warlord stuff for the Battle Master is very strictly limited (goodbye visions of Kaladin from the Stormlight Archive!), and that the Champion actually represents that BEST Fighter for non-combat, non-magic stuff, not the worst! So there's definitely positive and negative. I do agree that the Shadow Monk was a very welcome surprise, awesome actually (spoiler: it's a ninja, replete with 1980s-style "ninja magic", the text even says so! Well, the ninja bit anyway), and the Totem Barbarian is quite magical, but as I noted, is bizarre because Barbarians as a whole are great at tanking damage, and kind of "meh" at dealing it (?!?!!?!?!?) and they dropped the MUCH cooler Hawk totem in favour of lame ol' Eagle (thus killing DEX Barbs as discussed). Bardic Inspiration is also crap but I kind of have a faint hope that they changed that again after this because seriously? Giving out +1d6 3x a day when the Cleric can give out +1d4 to 3 people pretty much every COMBAT a day is just awful. Especially as you have to guess whether to use it or not before you know whether it will have much value. If he got 3x+ every short rest at a level below 15 that might be less awful (still hilariously inferior to Bless for combat!).

Still, overall classes broadly improved. Delighted to see a really cool Transmuter, and the love lavished on the Warlock was surprising and cool. Rangers suck a lot less though goddamn it Drizzt is apparently cheating by being both a Hunter AND a Beastmaster Ranger to judge from their abilities!

* = ULTRA TANGENT MODE ENGAGED - Why can WotC never come up with a good name for their Fighter/Mage? It's always terrible! The Eldritch Knight is not particularly "eldritch" (i.e. unearthly, alien, foreign) nor is he on any level, a knight, so he has no "description" excuse. He's out there in the garden with the Swordmage (uggggh), Hexblade (super-uuuuggggghh), Spellsword (gaaaaawd) and Duskblade (jebus caleebus). Even the Elven Bladesinger is looking down his nose at these freaks.

 

[Obryn]

They said the overall design philosophy was set in stone with the final playtest. Expecting things to drastically change is foolish.

I kind of thought that's why skeptics have been told to wait for the PHB? (Or, DMG.)

This isn't an overall design philosophy thing. This is specific complaints. If the feats are bad, isn't that a fair comment? If I'm watching it, after being dissatisfied with the playtest, and hoping it will be a game I want to play, isn't that fair feedback, too?

 

[the Jester]

Do tell! (I promise not to judge, but I love to hear about other people's games!)

Actually, on reflection, it wasn't last weekend (last game), it was a couple games back. I think I was mixing it up with the "pixie wrestling with Dispater over his rod as they battle on and for the throne of Dis" moment.

The pcs were facing off with a custom bad guy who had a red-hot poker and a blade used in torture. (This guy was a custom wrackspawn IIRC.) When it was time to throw down and bad guy draws his weapons and moves in, and a player immediately pipes up with, "That's it, right? Two minors and a move?"

To which I said, "Yeah, you're right," and pouted. (Okay, I didn't pout; I just ended that bad guy's turn.)

EDIT: For clarity, in case it isn't obvious, this was in a 4e game.

Also for clarity, the issue with the pixie/Dispater matchup that I was conflating had to do with what exactly Dispater grabbed with his standard action, the pixie or the rod.

 

[Mouseferatu]

Also for clarity, the issue with the pixie/Dispater matchup that I was conflating had to do with what exactly Dispater grabbed with his standard action, the pixie or the rod.

Isn't that always the tough choice? I know I've struggled with it more than once.

...

What?