D&D (2024) Playtest 6: Spells

[Mirrorrorrim]

No, enchantment is literally the entire thematic concept behind words of power. They’re not just spells, they’re fragments of the song of the Valar that wove the cosmos together. To speak the words is to make them so. That’s enchantment, through and through.

Disagree. It isn't "enchanting a magic item" or "mysterious/mystical powers". Below is the definition from the PHB 2014:

Enchantment spells affect the minds of others, influencing or controlling their behavior. Such spells can make enemies see the caster as a friend, force creatures to take a course of action, or even control another creature like a puppet.​

I would argue that using the new paradigm they've been evolving, PW Heal would be Abjuration and PW Kill would be Necromancy. PW Stun can still be Enchantment.

 

[Charlaquin]

Disagree. It isn't "enchanting a magic item" or "mysterious/mystical powers". Below is the definition from the PHB 2014:

Enchantment spells affect the minds of others, influencing or controlling their behavior. Such spells can make enemies see the caster as a friend, force creatures to take a course of action, or even control another creature like a puppet.​

Yes, that’s what Power Words do - they influence and compel the behavior of reality.

 

[Mirrorrorrim]

Yes, that’s what Power Words do - they influence and compel the behavior of reality.

Interesting stretch. But as far as I can find, it is not depicted in any rule, anywhere. It's literally making up something that interests you personally. I am open to evidence to the contrary. But that is like saying Fireball is really Conjuration because you are conjuring Fire from the Elemental planes.

Maybe they will redefine Enchantment to allow for such things. After all, the playtest has not changed the schools for those spells as of yet. But as written, they do not match the spell schools as currently presented.

 

[Charlaquin]

Interesting stretch. But as far as I can find, it is not depicted in any rule, anywhere.

Of course it’s not depicted in a rule, it’s thematics.

It's literally making up something that interests you personally.

I’m not making it up, there’s a longstanding mythical and folkloric association between the power of words to enchant and the power of words to define reality.

I am open to evidence to the contrary. But that is like saying Fireball is really Conjuration because you are conjuring Fire from the Elemental planes.

I mean, conjuring energy from the planes is the literal definition of evocation magic. A good argument could certainly be made that evocation is a redundant category and nearly all evocation spells could be reclassified under conjuration. But, the list of schools is a sacred cow for many, and D&D seems to be allergic to sacred beef.

Maybe they will redefine Enchantment to allow for such things. After all, the playtest has not changed the schools for those spells as of yet. But as written, they do not match the spell schools as currently presented.

When I said “all the Power Word spells are Enchantment,” I was speaking of what is, not what I believe ought to be. Heal was the only exception in the 2014 rules, and here they are simply taking the opportunity to fix that oversight.

 

[Stalker0]

Yes, that’s what Power Words do - they influence and compel the behavior of reality.

I meant if we are at that point than the schools of magic literally don't matter. I can literally make any spell any school if I'm willing to stretch this hard.

 

[Charlaquin]

I meant if we are at that point than the schools of magic literally don't matter. I can literally make any spell any school if I'm willing to stretch this hard.

It’s not a stretch. That’s the theming behind Power Words and why they’re all Enchantment. Like, literally, in the 2014 rules, with Heal being the only exception. It is appropriate that they’re fixing it to match the other Power Word spells in 2024.

 

[cbwjm]

So here is the thread to talk spells.

After the big discussion about Power Word Kill here: https://www.enworld.org/threads/power-word-kill-houserule-any-100-hp-within-1-minute.697945/

I was curious to see what they came up with. So now its an automatic 12d12 psychic damage (avg 78) if they are over 100 hp.

Its certainly an improvement, though I question whether you would take this over meteor swarm. I mean I can deal up to 140 damage with MS, or 70 on a save, which is close to PWK, but I can hit more targets, with much greater range. I think I would have perferred if PWK damage was untyped, that way you can argument the lack of resistability. fire is a much more common resistance than psychic but at high levels psychic resistance does become more commonplace.

Lastly....12d12 is just an awkward roll to make. A lot of tables are not going to have 12 d12s (you often just have 1 or 2), so you are doing a lot of re-rolls, whereas there are plenty of people that have 20 d6s

I think the benefit of this is that pwk is single target and is better in more confined spaces than meteor swarm. If your allies are already in the melee, you won't want to use meteor swarm.

I like the addition of the psychic damage if over 100hp, before now I thought pwk was a little weak, great if you know the health of your target, but I don't think that's common knowledge at most tables.

For rolling, you also have to take into account how many people use online dice rollers, especially for those who use dndbeyond, so finding 12 d12s might not be an issue for everyone, most other tables can likely make up 4+.

 

[Neonchameleon]

I meant if we are at that point than the schools of magic literally don't matter. I can literally make any spell any school if I'm willing to stretch this hard.

Well, yeah. Schools of magic basically are a tag added to every spell for the benefit of a single class and for inspiration. They don't matter, especially with the new wizard subclasses.

And which school should healing be in? They aren't a clear thing. And I'm with @Charlaquin on the most evocative and inspiring choice.

 

[Kobold Stew]

Thoughts on Spell changes:

• removing class-specific spells is solid, and really helps classes like the Paladin (half-caster) not be out-shone by full casters. Certainly it feels like my concerns were heard (which means of course they were widely voiced). Most of the smites, hex, hunter's Mark, Find Steed, Vicious Mockery. A good change.
• Mind Sliver is being mainstreamed. This is a striking choice: it's a very powerful cantrip, and it has a psionic flavour that was otherwise avoided in 2014. It's important because spells like Green Flame Blade and Booming Blade were Not mainstreamed in this way. yes, they are still available, but there is a prestige associated with being in the PHB. (Thunderclap and Frostbite also mainstreamed this way. It's not just one.).
• Do we really need a separate column saying no or yes for Ritual? I would just put an R and be done with it. Save words, and it would be easier to read.
• Changing schools. I'm generally okay with the school changes they've made. Healing spells now being Abjuration is fine. Raise Dead, Reincarnate, and Resurrection as Necromancy is correct, in my view.
• Hunter's Mark has concentration, which is a problem, but I think is there to prevent doubling Hex and Hunter's Mark with multiclassing. I don't see a way to have two distinct spells and not have them double up otherwise, even if it limits concentration for other spells, as noted. One fix would be just to make the same spell availabel to both classes. Loses flavour, but fixes the best "problem situation" for shenanigans.
• I really like where Find Steed is at.
• I am really sorry that Lore Bards can't poach class-specific spells. I expect some resistance to that in feedback, but I suspect there' not enough granularity in the surveys for that message to get across.

 

[Stalker0]

And which school should healing be in? They aren't a clear thing. And I'm with @Charlaquin on the most evocative and inspiring choice.

I personally think there are 2 solid choiceS:

1) Conjuration: As you are literally creating new tissue.
2) Necromancy: Bringing that which has partially died and now comes back.