D&D (2024) Playtest 6: Spells

[UngeheuerLich]

So here is the thread to talk spells.

After the big discussion about Power Word Kill here: https://www.enworld.org/threads/power-word-kill-houserule-any-100-hp-within-1-minute.697945/

I was curious to see what they came up with. So now its an automatic 12d12 psychic damage (avg 78) if they are over 100 hp.

Its certainly an improvement, though I question whether you would take this over meteor swarm. I mean I can deal up to 140 damage with MS, or 70 on a save, which is close to PWK, but I can hit more targets, with much greater range. I think I would have perferred if PWK damage was untyped, that way you can argument the lack of resistability. fire is a much more common resistance than psychic but at high levels psychic resistance does become more commonplace.

Lastly....12d12 is just an awkward roll to make. A lot of tables are not going to have 12 d12s (you often just have 1 or 2), so you are doing a lot of re-rolls, whereas there are plenty of people that have 20 d6s

I still like the spell upgrade. It goes through bear barbarian resistance and is a bit more selective than meteor swarm.

It is also no reflex save, which many classes have evasion against (and/or advantage to the save). And fire allows for absorb elements. So even though meteor swarm does 140 damage nominally, chances are that it only scratches high level characters.

 

[UngeheuerLich]

Good solution that we have is that you roll only 4 or 5 dice max. Rest, that must be even number, you just take average.

12d12 would be 4d12+52.
Saves time with adding 12 dice,
saves you number of dice,
saves you from outlying swingness of that many dice.

That is good advice.
Also works for fireballs.

14+4d6.

 

[Chaosmancer]

I wonder if this will see as much okay as Thaumaturgy Druid craft and prestidigitation?

Talking about Elementalism? (Can't see who you are responding to)

Honestly... it sucks. I'd honestly take Druidcraft over it and I had to alter druidcraft to make it worth taking.

Beckon Air: Messing with doors is good fun. I like this.
Beckon Earth: This does nothing? The shroud is useless and you can write a single word in sand or dirt as an action? There is no use for this.
Beckon Fire: You can make a scented smoke fill a small space? I mean, lighting candles and fires is okay, but you can't snuff them which is equally important.
Beckon Water: I guess creating a single cup of water that evaporates is the entire point? It isn't enough to do anything with, because thirst requires half a gallon of water so... what's the point?
Sculpt: You can make a temporary crude sculpture. That's it.

There is just... nothing here. The best two effects are the closing doors and lighting fires, and the other three cantrips do these better.

 

[FitzTheRuke]

I would prefer it to be something like 4d12+50.

But a home rule i has was the spell slot wasn't wasted if it failed, just the action.

This is the way to go for all spells that use more than six dice. And I LOVE dice.

EDIT: Beat to it.

 

[HammerMan]

Talking about Elementalism? (Can't see who you are responding to)

Yup. Looks like a fun rp cantrip.

Honestly... it sucks. I'd honestly take Druidcraft over it and I had to alter druidcraft to make it worth taking.

Beckon Air: Messing with doors is good fun. I like this.
Beckon Earth: This does nothing? The shroud is useless and you can write a single word in sand or dirt as an action? There is no use for this.
Beckon Fire: You can make a scented smoke fill a small space? I mean, lighting candles and fires is okay, but you can't snuff them which is equally important.
Beckon Water: I guess creating a single cup of water that evaporates is the entire point? It isn't enough to do anything with, because thirst requires half a gallon of water so... what's the point?
Sculpt: You can make a temporary crude sculpture. That's it.

There is just... nothing here. The best two effects are the closing doors and lighting fires, and the other three cantrips do these better.

 

[Chaosmancer]

Yup. Looks like a fun rp cantrip.

"Fun RP" is often "never taken" because cantrips are a very limited resource for most people. I'd prefer fun RP to be combined with "actually useful"

 

[Horwath]

"Fun RP" is often "never taken" because cantrips are a very limited resource for most people. I'd prefer fun RP to be combined with "actually useful"

every caster needs a default cantrip

ranged spell attack, 150ft, d8 damage, 2d8,3d8,4d8 scaling as normal
if you use it as a melee spell attack, d12 damage, 2d12,3d12,4d12 scaling

this could open spots for more "flavor" cantrips.

 

[Stalker0]

"Fun RP" is often "never taken" because cantrips are a very limited resource for most people. I'd prefer fun RP to be combined with "actually useful"

I mean are they? You need one good attack cantrip, and if you’re a divine caster it’s hard to give you guidance. Beyond thar…I mean you could take more combat cantrips but you don’t really need to

 

[Chaosmancer]

I mean are they? You need one good attack cantrip, and if you’re a divine caster it’s hard to give you guidance. Beyond thar…I mean you could take more combat cantrips but you don’t really need to

Ideally you want 1 ranged cantrip, one melee option, and 1 utility option.

Sure, Guidance is hard to give up. But for arcane casters so is Mage Hand (insane utility), Message or Minor Illusion. I mean, Elementalism is right there on that list, so which of those three spells would say it is superior to?

Even the primal list has Guidance, Spare the Dying, the new Resistance which is a reaction, those are all VERY good options. And the Druid only has 2 to 4 cantrips. Throw in Thorn Whip, Shillelagh, and Produce Flame and is Elementalism even a contender for one of those four cantrips?

 

[Kobold Stew]

Historically, it's been both. Necromancy used to have a broader life and death focus (which I think is honestly more thematically defensible than "all the spooky stuff") and Conjuration was specifically about summoning the raw force of the Positive Energy plane to invigorate your target (a choice that definitely accelerated the Conjuration/Evocation mashup issue).

Abjuration has waffled between "planes of defensive force" and "magic about magic" for a while now, but I don't think expanding to "anything defensive/non-aggressive" is going to help clarify anything.

I have wanted all healing spells to be Necromancy for years -- so that "necromancer" is both evil animating of corpses and preserving life. as it is, it's the only school with a presumptive valence (= evil).

At least I can see the choice for abjuration: curiously, by making it abjuration, it ends up saying something specific about the nature of hit points, emphatically saying that some/many of the points restored are not healing injuries and knitting flesh together -- healing spells are covering some of the more abstract interpretations for what a hit point bag is.