D&D 5E Playtest Report - Things are shaping up!

[Klaus]

Last weekend we had a quick playtest, to gauge the latest packet. Same players and characters as our previous playtest (where the 3-PC party was almost TPKd by nine kobolds). This time, I used Fiery Dragon's counters and Dungeon Tiles to help with combats.

Quick character summary:

1. Mountain Dwarf Cleric (Protector); Background: Knight; Specialty: Defender.

2. Wood Elf Fighter (Archer); Background: Guide; Specialty: Skirmisher.

3. Human Wizard (Scholar); Background: Sage; Specialty: Mystic Healer.

We used Experimental Rule 1 for healing: each hour of rest healed level + Con modifier in hit points (8 hours add Con score hp on top of that).

The party faced three fights in just under three hours (with plenty of roleplaying at the beginning and some Exploration Rules testing in the middle). The fights were:

- 2 human warriors + 2 guard dogs (wolves)
- 3 lizardfolk + 1 crocodile (giant lizard with clamping jaws) + 4 stirges.
- 1 lizardfolk leader + 3 lizardfolk

The use of counters and tiles reeeeeeally quickened combats. Everyone knew where everything was, the players began using terrain (like placing a small pond between themselves and the humans, for instance), and the wizard positioned herself to catch as many enemies as possible inside her burning hands area.

The first fight was the hardest, even though it was supposed to be average for their level. The wolves' knock down mechanic (roll max on damage to knock enemy prone) meant that I couldn't use a fixed ammount for their damage, leading to a greater swinginess in this combat (both the dwarf and elf were knocked prone at different points). If we weren't using the rest-based healing rules, the PCs might have been forced to stop right there (the cleric had already burned a Cure Wounds on himself and his Divine Shelter to save the elf from the first wolf).

After this fight, I wanted to see if a single level would make the PCs more stable. And yes, it made a huge difference. Although the PCs were very much "beginners" (no 2nd-level spells, etc), they had a lot more hit points and greater flexibility (even the fighter, who took Shove Away as his bonus feat).

The second fight was supposed to be a hard one for 2nd-level characters. Surprisingly, it was a cakewalk. The PCs managed to achieve surprise, and dispatched the lizardfolk and the crocodile before they could even act (they won initiative, so ended up acting twice before their enemies could react). Burning hands, magic missile and the fighter's Ricochet ability made short work of them. In the next round the stirges entered, and a ray of front and the fighter's bow made short work of them, before they could attack.

After resting a bit, they entered the final room. Now this fight lasted an appropriate ammount. The cleric used Cause Fear to control the battlefield, imposing disadvantage on two lizardfolk and on their leader, and ended up facing only the two unaffected lizardfolk. The fighterswitched to scimitar and made short work of one lizardfolk, while another fell down a chasm trying to flee from the cleric (yay for impromptu interpretation of Dungeon Tiles!). The cleric alternated between facing the lizardfolk and the leader, while the wizard (after recovering one 1st-level slot -- yay for Arcane Recovery!) machinegunned the leader with a point-blank magic missile. It took them about seven rounds to finally kill the leader (last one standing).

Next playtest, we'll mess with the wizard and cleric's spell list a bit to offer greater flexibility (as opposed to just damagedamagedamage). The wizard's biggest complaint: she no longer rolled her attacks.

 

[Kinak]

Thanks for the report!

Do you think the stabilization from hitting 2nd level was more the hit points or the flexibility you mentioned with more spells and feats?

Cheers!
Kinak

 

[Klaus]

Both, really.

I gave them the fixed hit point increase (4 + Con for the wizard, 5 + Con for the cleric and 6 + Con for the fighter), and that enabled them to withstand a lucky blow here and there. Plus, healing-wise, the difference between 1st and 2nd level is really dramatic: the cleric went from (theoretically) 2 Cure Wounds and 1 Channel Divinity to 3 Cure Wounds and 2 Channel Divinities. I'd rather have the cleric start with 2 Channel Divinities per day. But with the new Apprentice tier explanation, it didn't bother as much.

I know I'd start games at 2nd level, now. Complexity-wise, it is pretty much the same as 1st level, but PCs are a tad more resilient.

 

[MortalPlague]

Thanks for the report! I always love to hear how other groups are doing with the playtest.

Your experience with second level matches my own pretty well. My party became much more survivable after first level, mainly due to hit points. I really do think the 'start at 3rd level' for regular D&D experience is a good idea.

My playtest (with similar level-based findings):
http://www.enworld.org/forum/showthread.php?335973-April-Playtest-Back-To-Blingdenstone

 

[Rhenny]

Nice report. I'm enjoying the progress in the playtest too.

One of the ideas you touched on has been a thorn in my side for a while as well. Whenever the party gains surprise or initiative, it really changes the tenor of the battle. Even hard encounters (especially at higher levels) can turn into a 1 rounder if the Wizard goes first, and certainly if a number of PCs go first. On the other hand, if the monsters go first, the battle can tip against the PCs. One problem I have as DM is that most of the time, if the party can make spot or listen checks, they rarely if ever become surprised, and often because the monsters only have 0, +1, +2 initiatives, the party tends to out roll the monsters.

I'd love someone to devise a more interesting way to start and manage turns in battle so that the default encounter is at least more even (perhaps group roll and alternate between one person from the winning party and one person from the losing party, one person from the winning party, one person from the losing party...maybe I'll try it although it seems like it may be pretty complicated at first).

 

[GX.Sigma]

Whenever the party gains surprise or initiative, it really changes the tenor of the battle. Even hard encounters (especially at higher levels) can turn into a 1 rounder if the Wizard goes first, and certainly if a number of PCs go first. On the other hand, if the monsters go first, the battle can tip against the PCs. One problem I have as DM is that most of the time, if the party can make spot or listen checks, they rarely if ever become surprised, and often because the monsters only have 0, +1, +2 initiatives, the party tends to out roll the monsters.

I'd love someone to devise a more interesting way to start and manage turns in battle so that the default encounter is at least more even

Old-school D&D.

Surprise was a flat die roll, and very few creatures got any kind of bonus on surprise.
Initiative was a flat die roll, and very few creatures got any kind of bonus on initiative.
Also, I believe spellcasting always happened after both sides did movement and attacks, at least for some versions.

Or something like that. I don't fully understand it because it was really complicated, but I think a simpler version could be an awesome option for D&DN.

 

[AbdulAlhazred]

Old-school D&D.

Surprise was a flat die roll, and very few creatures got any kind of bonus on surprise.
Initiative was a flat die roll, and very few creatures got any kind of bonus on initiative.
Also, I believe spellcasting always happened after both sides did movement and attacks, at least for some versions.

Or something like that. I don't fully understand it because it was really complicated, but I think a simpler version could be an awesome option for D&DN.

AD&D casting simply had a time factor involved, you added your initiative check to the casting time in segments and that was when the spell went off. The enemy acted on a segment equal to their initiative check plus weapon speed factor (if you used it). There were a few differences between 1e and 2e and some corner cases, but that was about it.You announced EVERYTHING at the start of the combat round, and then rolled initiative for the round, then acted based on that plus weapon speed/casting time to see if spell casters got their stuff off before being hit. It was WEIRD in a lot of ways, and the turn-based system used since 3e honestly seems a bit less odd. It was way swingy too. A bad initiative roll was deadly, and getting 3 segments of surprise on you? Forget it, BAD news.

So, not having played using this latest packet, are fights still running 2 melee rounds most of the time? That seemed like a big problem to me with the last packet.

 

[Klaus]

So, not having played using this latest packet, are fights still running 2 melee rounds most of the time? That seemed like a big problem to me with the last packet.

The second fight (lizardfolk, crocodile and stirges) ran for all of three rounds, but only one side acted (surprise + winning initiative). It was a massacre.

The first fight (average that turned out to be hard) ran for about five rounds. The final fight ran for 7 or 8 rounds. Granted, the PCs rolled some poor damage a few times on that fight, so it could've been over in six rounds or so.

 

[AbdulAlhazred]

The second fight (lizardfolk, crocodile and stirges) ran for all of three rounds, but only one side acted (surprise + winning initiative). It was a massacre.

The first fight (average that turned out to be hard) ran for about five rounds. The final fight ran for 7 or 8 rounds. Granted, the PCs rolled some poor damage a few times on that fight, so it could've been over in six rounds or so.

Yeah, surprise is good, I think it should be a big factor. As long as there are a reasonable number of decision points and some time to pull off tactics other than "Kill it fast!"

 

[Klaus]

One other thing we noticed: as it stands, Dual Wielding may be too good. The fighter wielded two scimitars, which was mechanically equivalent to wielding one scimitar with always-on combat advantage.