POLL: Biblical-era Middle-East setting

Would you be interested in a biblical-style setting for d20?

  • YEAH! Biblical d20 is a good idea, and I'd use it.

    Votes: 15 14.7%
  • Sure. Biblical d20 is a nice idea, and I might use some stuff.

    Votes: 41 40.2%
  • Whatever. Biblical d20 may be good for some, but I wouldn't use it.

    Votes: 21 20.6%
  • You're kidding. Biblical d20 is not only useless, it's playing with fire!

    Votes: 21 20.6%
  • The Obligatory OTHER

    Votes: 4 3.9%

I'm A Banana

Potassium-Rich
Really? Go with reality?

I mean, realism is all well-and-good, but I think having it *really* realistic might be a bad idea.

I could live with a limitation of fantasy races (or at least a sublimination of them). I'm not sure I could live with low-magic (though maybe low-er magic) or using actual religious figures as opposed to fantasy versions of them.

I'm still open to it, if that's what people want...I just think that if I make Moses a Clr18/Pal2 or something I'm gonna need to explain why he could never "cure light wounds" in the Bible, whereas if I make Senior Bob, a guy who saved this tribe of people from slavery far to the southeast, the same thing, I can avoid having to make it 100% true-to-source.
 

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arcseed

First Post
I have to vote for reality too. Or, at least, the reality portrayed in the Book, with interventionist gods, sorcery as an accepted fact, and frequent miracles. We can live with an extra touch of the fantastic.

But orcs, no. Anachronistic time periods jammed in different parts of a continent, no. It can't even really be done: The Torah is inextricably tied to that specific time and place, and Christianity and Islam would be unrecognizable if they didn't have the common history to draw from.

As for Moses not being able to bust out the Cures, I think biblical d20 may well require a very different look at priests, at least for YHVH. And God did bust out with the plagues, and a lot of create foods, and a sticks to snakes through him. One note is that the priests, and the rest of the levites, who do the less important serving-god stuff, are ALL born into it. The prophets are all called to it by YHVH. Which both raises the point of reluctant ordinary priests (not just Jonah), and the one that you can't really decide to be a priest, which should probably have some funny consequences for the priest class.

What I'd probably do is make miracles have to be explicitly adjudicated by the DM. With guidelines about the usual sort of effects, and power levels, available at various levels. A pain in the ass, but I really don't know if there's a better way.

A thought: you can have 'racial' modifiers based on tribe (among Hebrews) or nationality (for others). Not sure just what you'd do for that, but I kinda remember descriptions of the various tribes that you could use.

As for resources: You should definitely find some good popular anthropolgy books on the Hebrews. You might also check out something on modern Bedouins, as their culture is still, in a lot of ways, very similar to that of the Semitic peoples of several thousand years ago.

And you should probably read up on history in the perods in question, though, of course, you should defer to the Book where recorded history contradicts it. I strongly recommend Keegan's A Brief History of Warfare as general reading, but also 'coz youre dealing with a long time period with some significant technological advances in how people fight. And probably the appropriate sections of its bibliography. Or anything good you can find on the late Bronze age in the area and the introduction of iron and horseback riding.

And, of course, the Book needs a good careful reading.
 

Uncle Joe

Explorer
My two shekels,

If your trying to produce characters with a "biblical feel", I would go with these options:

Secular (no alignment restrictions)
1. Fighter - Numerous examples of this type.
2. Rogue - Scout and infiltrator types.
3. Barbarian - Rarer than fighters, but an option. Isaac's son Esau is a good example.

Divine (any nonevil alignment)
1. Nevi - Prophets of YHWH. Standard Cleric, has access to most domains, save Death and Evil. Examples are Moses and Elijah.
2. Chazan - Divine Bard or cantor. David and Solomon are examples.
3. Shofet - Divine judges. Use Paladin if necessary, but the Sohei from OA is a better match. An example would be Samson.

All other base classes would be unavailable. Any other supernatural abilities come from the invocation of minor spirits by the Adept npc class. Most priests and levites would be Experts rather than Nevi'im, which can be called from any tribe. As for prestige classes, one possible option could be the Goel (blood avenger), which could be derived from the Bounty Hunter in Star Wars.
 


Gez

First Post
Well, I'm not much interested, but I would not mind seeing such a thing.

But the problem is, this could draw an unwated attention from the bullywugs known as religious fundamentalists
 

I'm A Banana

Potassium-Rich
It could, but who's seeing it that's a religious fundamentalist? How much would the D&D community care about that, anyway?

I'm not saying it won't provoke ire, I'm saying the ire it does provoke probably won't be in the form of overly-fanatical types. Many of those don't play D&D as it is.

I'm interested in hearing from some of the resident catholics/christians/jews on this board. If there's any Muslims, I'd like to hear from them, too, but I don't remember seeing anybody claim to be...:)

Do you think that, even if not overtly fantasized, this would irk you and your resident religious advisor? I'm pretty sure I can remove the ideas enough from reality to avoid it too much, if I must, but most people want a mostly-realistic setting. Would this offend your religion?

I'd say that fundamentalists have had their pot-shots at D&D long enough. I'd also say that any practicing religious-types who DO play D&D have also come to terms with this. I would be quite disturbed if this would drive some people who are already part of the hobby away.

As it is, it's a free PDF series on a website that most people probably wouldn't find if they weren't looking in D&D-related areas as it is. It's not even being published (though that'd be ideal for me, I understand why a company wouldn't. Plus, I'm doing it to get the idea out, not to make a quick buck...though, of course, I'd never count it out. :))

Is there honestly the chance of somebody who doesn't already have pre-established ideas about D&D seeing this and decrying it as the work of Satan? Or even on a more minor level, giving somebody a slightly sickening feeling that somebody would do this?

The main fear I have is that somebody could see it as rather "cheapening" the religious experience of the periods and figures covered, which is why I wanted to gussy it up, at least minimally, in fantasy, to let people know that no, I'm not saying that somebody with the Epic-Level Handbook and a 35th level character could beat up what you believe is the Savior of Mankind. No, I don't think that the Dragon in Revelations is literally a blue dragon of Wyrm age. No, I don't think that a blow from the flaming sword of the cherubim guarding Eden could not deal enough damage to destroy a person of high enough level.

Basically, to preserve the feel of the age and the epic tangibility of the holy books and related literature, not to say "Jesus was a Munchkin!"

That's why I want (and will probably keep) at least a minimal level of fantasation (hey! I made up a word!). There will be no character named, say, Jesus, but there will be a dude who fills his role, probably with a similar name, thus keeping the line between the Sacred and the D&D-Fantasy-Setting fairly clear.

I mean, I personally was raised in Chatholicism, went to private schools, and many of my friends still are Catholic. I discovered D&D at a Catholic school. I'm pretty sure the people I know would only be offended if I proposed to give the Virgin Mary hit dice. If I made it fantasy enough so that there was a woman named Shiela who gave birth to a man named Brian who is the head of a discipleship devoted to peace and love, it makes it a lot less a cheapening of the actual figure, and more of an homage, which is what I'm going for.

On a mechanical note, I think that I will phase out arcane spellcasting -- only divine spellcasting is allowed, and it will change from the cleric class to various PrCs. Instead of spells/day, they'll get a number of powers (Call 'em "Blessings") that function basically like spell-like abilities. And one of the requirements for many of the PrC's will be "Called by Your God" or something similar, making it within the power of the DM to render null-and-void any or all of them.

Summoning a pillar of flame, for instance, may be the 6th level powe of the PrC "Leader of People" Parting a Sea may be an 8th level power of that same PrC. Sorta thing. And Pharoh's priests will be divine spellcasters of the no-less-real (but obviously manifestations of the Adversary, or simply hubristically mortal) gods of Egypt, maybe x-level Royal Priests with the Duplicate Divine Manifestation power.

Anyhoo, that's just my plans right now. Keep arguing with me, please, as it's quite likely to greatly affect what I do :)

Oh, and about the Crusades-era...IMHO, I can do the Crusades in any setting, all I need is a group of Monarchies, a desert empire, and a religous conflict. The rest writes itself. So I'm not undertaking any crusades-projects, but if someone wants to, go for it. I prolly won't buy it, but obviously someone will. :)
 

I'm A Banana

Potassium-Rich
And....BUMP!

Ideally, I'll get about 100 votes, to get a good number. Right now, it looks like it's gonna get done in some form, but the form has yet to be determined...
 

Mystaros

First Post
smetzger said:
I am interested in:

Crusades Holy Land Campaign.


The 2E Historical Reference Campaign Sourcebook "The Crusades" provides a lot of good information on this setting. Also, Robert E. Howard (of Conan fame) wrote a number of short stories set in the Crusades era, collected in "The Sowers of Thunder" collection... can't play in the era without reading those stories! Also, two other excellent sources are Howard Lamb's "The Crusades: Iron Men and Saints" and Jonathan Riley-Smith's "The Atlas of the Crusades."

smetzger said:
I am interested in:

Fantasy End Times Biblical Campaign - Set during the events of Revelation


Tyranny Games is re-releasing The End, originally published by Scapegoat Games, as a D20 System game. Should be out shortly. Highly recommended; though it is more "realistic," you can easily add fantasy elements to it. Say, combine it with elements from Steven Boyett's "Ariel: A Book of The Change," which posits an entirely different form of "apocalypse." Hmmmm... might also want to add elements in from Steven Brust's "To Reign in Hell," which provides an excellent fantasy background on the whole good/eveil cosmology thing.

James

James
 
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Geoffrey

First Post
I don't play d20, but I have been toying with a similar idea for an OD&D campaign:

Time: 13th century B. C.
Place: Near East

The only two modern day religions that really exist at this time are a very mythological and pre-philosophical Hinduism in India (think of the Indian Mythos in the original Deities & Demigods); and the monotheistic Israelites who worship YHWH on Mount Gerizim. Yes, this is pre-Jerusalem, folks. On Mt. Gerizim was built the Tabernacle (no Temple for another 2-3 centuries) which housed the extremely dangerous Ark of the Covenant. The hereditary priesthood of the house of Aaron, assisted by the Levites, is in control of the Tabernacle and the animal sacrifices that are made there.

Think of all the cool places to explore: The Egypt of the Pharaohs, the ancient Babylonians, the Aegean civilization (right in time for Jason and the Argonauts!), the first dynasties in China, etc.

Plus, the very primitive forms of Hinduism and YWHW worship that were going on in the 13th century B. C. are so incredibly different than today's Hinduism, Buddhism, and Jainism and today's Judaism, Christianity, and Islam, that it is difficult imagining people having a problem with such a setting. Remember that TSR did a Crusades sourcebook, with Roman Catholics fighting against Muslims and Eastern Orthodox; they also did a 16th-17th cen. sourcebook with Catholics fighting Protestants. Those two things hit far closer to home than a 13th-century B. C. setting , and I don't remember anyone complaining about them.
 

Zappo

Explorer
Turlogh said:
That being said it would make a cool gaming world- parting seas, calling fire from heaven, Besting 900 (by yourself) men while defending a field of lentils, giants, leviatians, behemoths, etc., etc.
All of that is pretty common in standard D&D.
 

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