POLL: Biblical-era Middle-East setting

[Tonguez]

If I made it fantasy enough so that there was a woman named Shiela who gave birth to a man named Brian who is the head of a discipleship devoted to peace and love, it makes it a lot less a cheapening of the actual figure, and more of an homage, which is what I'm going for.

Speaking as a Christian who plays games I don't really see a problem (but I'm also not American and so don't have the 'fundamentalist problem either)

However I do think you should avoid ANY modelling of Jesus and either run the game in a pre-messianic timeframe (He is still to come) or post-messianic (He is risen). You could even run the game during the messianic period (3 years of it) but focussed on some of the new converts who might interact with the Disciples..
DO NOT ALLOW JESUS TO BE A PLAYBALE CHARACTER and DO NOT GIVE HIM STATS!!!

The Game should present PCs with low power levels and although wrestling with angels might be possible the flaming sword of the Cherubim will destroy all human flesh.

Of course it would be best for a Jewish gamer to comment on the whole Moses issue but thats my input for now

PS I justed watched 'The Prince of Egypt' (it was the easter movie on TV) it was great!

 

[Henry@home]

In answer to Kamikaze's question: A free PDF won't make anyone else cry fouler than for the abominable "White Warriors" game. I'm not comparing the two, but a d20 "Old Testament" game isn't going to cause anyone to lose their faith, or think any differently about D&D as a whole. I am Christian in faith, and I for one would like to see your ideas. Consider setting it somewhere towards the end of the Old Testament period - that 3 or 400 years between it and the arrival of Jesus? I am not extremely familiar with Judaism, but doesn't the Torah or the Talmud cover this period fairly well?

I like the "blesings idea - maybe you should draw on something like Monte Cook's Spellsongs (OGL material, after all) to do the Blessings. You would have to come up with new blessings, but there is some solid material there for the basic mechanics of how they work.

 

[I'm A Banana]

So I get some support. Yay!

Tonguez, that's my plan right now...I don't have plans to give any of the actual figures stats. Moses, Jesus, Mohammad, whatever. I don't even think I'll be using the DDG to described Yahweh in D&D terms just so some guy somewhere can say "Hey, everybody, I killed God!"

That said, I'll probably describe a *similar* deity, and *similar* characters, using all the mechanics. But, in this way, I can present variants and things based on the series. Brian could truly be a savior-figure, and have levels of the Incarnate Deity PrC, or he could be simply a high-level illusionist with a high Charisma, who likes to pretend he's an incarnate deity. This will allow, I hope, for even devoutly religious types to toy with "what if's," without invoking any divine wrath.

Of course, I want the *focus* of the campaign to not be becoming/beating/submitting to the biblical figures, but rather about the environment and effects these create. I do want it to be possible to play as a savior-figure, or something, if that's what you want, but I think I'd be rather unentertained if my friend Tom got to play a Messiah-figure and I was some disciple. I'd much rather have Tom be another disciple, and the Messiah-figure to be in the DM's control.

I'm glad to see some religious types comment...makes me think I'm doin' the right thing.

Of course, there's a huge gulf between re-naming and re-casting biblical figures and turning Pontious Pilate into an orc and Pharoh into an elf. ^_^

Honestly, I'm leaning away from this much fantasation. I find the human-led, lower-magic campaign a lot more interesting, from a player perspective. I'd like to play a character who is amazed by the miracles possible by those chosen by the God(s).

Right now, I'd like to make the campaign human-based, perhaps with regional variation a la the clans of OA....

And about the blessings....yeah, that's a good idea. I do, however, have to wait for the print version of BoeM2 before I do that...my computer is too unreliable to try and have something that valuable on it.

Should I use the idea of "Unexceptional Adventurers?" E.g.: the PC's are just normal people thrown into the events they encounter, or keep with the standard D&D questin' for riches and fame theme?

The thing is, if I go with the average joes, I'm going to have to account for more NPC classes and a lower power base, perhaps even turning the usual PC classes into PrC's that require the NPC classes to get into. It involves quite a bit of restructuring, then.

If I go with heroic adventurers, I run the risk of hurting the flavor of the time period, where the only exceptional people were those inspired by the gods. It could work, but the PC's would be strangely seperate from the campaign world, unless everyone in the campaign world was of a moderately high level. Part of the feel of the world seems to be that most people are mere men, and only with the power of The God can you rise above that, to become a hero.

 

[I'm A Banana]

A bump for Easter and Passover....and...any Muslim holy day about now that I don't know abot.

So, who wants to role-play in a world where these things are happening around your PC's?

 

[uv23]

I would say no, and not because I'm closed minded and certainly not because I'm religious. If you have such a strong interest, I'd say use it as your own campaign setting with your own players and perhaps offer up a website with free downloads if you really think its worth sharing. But things like different attribute adjustments for different (human) races? Bad idea. Very bad idea. And if you did abstract it by making the human races into fantasy races it'd be even worse as it reveals even stronger stereotyping. Honestly, what one fellow said early on really rings true for me. There's so much conflict in the real world on religious terms already, I'd be happy with my basic clerics of good and evil, law and chaos battling it out instead.

 

[I'm A Banana]

Well, that's what the poll is for -- to see if it's worth the time and effort I may put into it. If I'm the only one that's going to be using it, I'll fast-and-loose it like I usually do, but if there's a slight market for this, I'd be happy to provide a resource for the general gaming community at large. Otherwise, it's just wastin' bandwith and time....time that COULD be spent cataloging the various demon and devil god-kings and such.

Okay, attribute adjustments for humans are a bad idea. Why? I mean, I wasn't planning on using them anyway (being more like the OA clans, with a specific favored class and maybe a bonus class skill, but no other adjustments), and I don't think there will be many, if any, nonhuman races to be "stereotyped." Sure, it's possible, but I am leaning heavily against it, just beacuse it could go against the feel of the setting a lot to have critters from European myth, however disguised, runnin' the show.

So I'm going to stick with a big dose of realism (though not too much. )

And about not wanting to play because it hits too close to home....that's all well and good. Can't make ya like it. But, for me at least, this is something that would make an evocative campaign setting. There's more than religious difference (though there's a lot of that). There's governmental corruption, demons that posess people, marauders in the desert, insane cultists, ancient lore hidden for millenia, and, well, everything that makes a great campaign setting. Heap onto it the question of belief and truth, and you've got something that also pushes my philosophical buttons.

It seems that I'm not the only dude(et) who thinks so.

But, if moral ambiguity and such doesn't appeal to you, obviously the setting isn't for you...that's fine. But why shouldn't it be done at all?

Anyhoo, keep talkin', since I'm still not really set on one thing or another.

 

[arcseed]

Speaking as this thread's resident Jew, I'm certainly not offended, but I know there are Jews who would be. Probably a smaller proportion of us than of Christians. And you'd certainly want some sort of disclaimer about not pretending to actually portray anyone's religious beliefs.

On stats for people named in the Book: what I might do is say, 'under these rules, Moses would be an 18th level Prophet, but we don't suggest putting your characters in situations where a stat block is necessary. He has create food, part water, etc, etc. Remember, any Hebrew who kills an 18th level Prophet immediately loses 9 points of Divine Favor.'

I have problems with making up attribute modifiers, like deciding, 'coz they kicked ass for a while, that the Hittites oughtta have a +2 stregnth, but say, if Torah says:
'Most blessed of sons be Asher;
May he be the favorite of his brothers,
May he dip his foot in oil.
25 May your doorbolts be iron and copper,
And your security last all your days.

 

[arcseed]

Crap, didn't mean to send that off.

But, as I was saying: Torah says that about Asher, I don't see any problem giving the tribe of Asher, say, a +2 con, and some corresponding disadvantage. Or maybe a +2 cha for the 'favorite of his brothers'.

 

[SHARK]

Greetings!

Well, to be honest, I've resisted posting to this thread for awhile now. Kamikaze's sincerity though inspired me. As a gamer, I find that the Biblical era is bursting with interesting details, and dramatic possibilities.

As a Christian, and a person working on a Masters degree in Theology, I particularly enjoy the deeper levels of theology inspired by such a campaign theme. I'm certainly not offended by using the era, per se, or cultural and religious details. I have developed an area like it, with similar details and themes, in my own campaign.

However, I'm not too sure about using the real-world religions, instead of a fantasy analogue. Adding elements of theology is cool, but I'm not sure about casual players wanting to get into all kinds of fights and disagreements over religion in general, and *doctrinal minutae* in particular. And, to be honest, the three Religions of The Book, all have a good number of doctrinal schismatic groups, either currently, or historically. The history is very passionate, and very, very bloody. I don't think the average gamer is just that interested in such themes. That doesn't mean that a campaign module can't be done, but I would caution to do one of the following:

(1) If such is to be a low-magic, real-world analogue, make the campaign setting exclude the time of Christ. In history, there were a few messianic figures in the area before Christ. Once Christ enters the scene, there are so many historio-religious elements to not only keep track of, but which can be potentials for endless *REAL-LIFE* arguments between people.

(2) Keep the environment, but blend in fantasy elements, and translate different fantastical elements to contain similar themes, but which not only allow for customization and variation, but also avoid real-life doctrinal problems. There can thus be an oppressive empire of humans ruling over a land of enslaved elves, all of which interact with a powerful foreign kingdom of Minotaurs; there can still be strange religious cults, fanatics, and wars, as well as great dynasties and so on. Much can be done with such an environment.

Just some thoughts.

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK

 

[Shades of Green]

BUMP!