D&D 5E Poll for PC's with 4 or more levels in a class.

[smbakeresq]

My last character was a fighter/rogue; I wouldn't consider 6 levels of fighter "dipping" (although he has now taken more levels of rogue).

My next character, I'm probably going to be straight fighter because my last one ended up being more of a range guy and I miss getting into the middle of the scrum. Besides I want to try a champion fighter/shield master option, I think it could be more effective than people give them credit for.

It is more effective than you think. You will shove people prone with a bonus action and then attack them multiple times with advantage, enhancing the value of increased crit range. Enlarge spell has a good effect on you, you will know be able to prone huge creatures. As a DM if you took a race with powerful build I would let you use that also to prone huge creatures.

Your group will have to also play along, prone gives advantage only for melee attacks. But you can prone someone in a Spirit Guardians field and watch them melt, they will use their half speed to just stand up. A proned creature who falls victim to Dissonant Whispers will stand up and then move, provoking an OA from you and not moving very far anyway.

Don’t forget the push option, you can push them into the Cloud of Daggers and then move adjacent, they stay in the field or move away and provoke OA. Push them into and off of hazardous terrains. The push option can be used to free a grappled ally also as a bonus action, that’s pretty good.


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[Yardiff]

My last character had exactly 4 levels of fighter - if I'm already at 3 for the subclass, going 4 for an ASI is almost mandatory if you don't want to be far behind the ASI curve. I'll go as far as saying that if you are using point buy, 95 out of 100 cases if you take fighter 3 you'll take fighter 4. Whihc makes 4 the cusp that both primary class and a "bigger dip". I'd like to see this same poll with 5 levels required.

If you go 4th why not 5th for the second attack?

 

[smbakeresq]

I actually wrote a program to compare fighting styles, including not just DPR but also how long the character would live in a cage match. Duelist Shield master does better than GWM most of the time (my simulation went up to level 12 vs a variety of monsters). I need to do a post showing results some day.

Whether or not my simulation was accurate, at the very least it indicated they're in the same ballpark. Between knocking prone for advantage (or re-positioning opponents for tactical reasons) and a higher AC it should be a lot of fun.

It’s tough to calculate because if you prone someone then your Paladin steps over and lands a Smite due to you giving him advantage that’s your damage even though he swung the hammer. The increased chance to hit and crit is very useful but not “flashy” and will be overlooked by many.

Freeing your wizard from the grapple of the otyguh allowing him to cast a different spell then Misty Step is great, but you can’t figure that in either.


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[Oofta]

It is more effective than you think. You will shove people prone with a bonus action and then attack them multiple times with advantage, enhancing the value of increased crit range. Enlarge spell has a good effect on you, you will know be able to prone huge creatures. As a DM if you took a race with powerful build I would let you use that also to prone huge creatures.

Your group will have to also play along, prone gives advantage only for melee attacks. But you can prone someone in a Spirit Guardians field and watch them melt, they will use their half speed to just stand up. A proned creature who falls victim to Dissonant Whispers will stand up and then move, provoking an OA from you and not moving very far anyway.

Don’t forget the push option, you can push them into the Cloud of Daggers and then move adjacent, they stay in the field or move away and provoke OA. Push them into and off of hazardous terrains. The push option can be used to free a grappled ally also as a bonus action, that’s pretty good.


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Yeah, it sounds fun. I think people get too caught up in hypothetical DPR analysis. I've never paid too much attention to what builds I "should" do and focus instead on what's fun and makes sense for my character. As long as I pull my weight on the team I'm good to go.

I also like the synergy suggestions, I'll have to discuss it with my better half and see what kind of dynamic duo we might be able to come up with.

 

[Oofta]

It’s tough to calculate because if you prone someone then your Paladin steps over and lands a Smite due to you giving him advantage that’s your damage even though he swung the hammer. The increased chance to hit and crit is very useful but not “flashy” and will be overlooked by many.

Freeing your wizard from the grapple of the otyguh allowing him to cast a different spell then Misty Step is great, but you can’t figure that in either.


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I agree. Even in straight-up-one-on-one fights the duelist/shield master does better in my simulations and that's without giving advantage to allies and the control aspects. The reflex save bonus/save for no damage is big, just plain hitting (and getting critical hits) more often because of advantage adds up.

Only problem is that it kind of hurts ranged attackers, but there are usually plenty of things for them to target.

 

[Tony Vargas]

If you go 4th why not 5th for the second attack?

Possibly because you cast more than attack, or because some other class you're taking 5+ levels in also gets Extra Attack, which doesn't stack?

 

[smbakeresq]

Yeah, it sounds fun. I think people get too caught up in hypothetical DPR analysis. I've never paid too much attention to what builds I "should" do and focus instead on what's fun and makes sense for my character. As long as I pull my weight on the team I'm good to go.

I also like the synergy suggestions, I'll have to discuss it with my better half and see what kind of dynamic duo we might be able to come up with.

As a side note to he Shield master fighter, you

1. have more minis to choose from,

2. will get the pick of the magic shield (you use it more than any other class)

3. Get more use from Bless, it works on the athletics checks.

4. More use from enlarge (advantage on strength checks)

5. Get to prone a Gelatinous Cube ( doesn’t seem possible but is)

6. Welcome ledges to push people from (although having to climb down to get that plot item is a pita.



It’s great with a monk, they can get their entire attack sequence and flurry with advantage. It helps them more since they offer have less things to give them pluses to hit.


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[Yardiff]

True but if your a caster you probably wont go beyond 2 lv fighter.

 

[Yardiff]

5. Get to prone a Gelatinous Cube ( doesn’t seem possible but is)

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Not so much.
Condition Immunities blinded, charmed, deafened, exhaustion, frightened, prone pg 242 MM.

 

[Satyrn]

My last character was a fighter/rogue; I wouldn't consider 6 levels of fighter "dipping" (although he has now taken more levels of rogue).

My next character, I'm probably going to be straight fighter because my last one ended up being more of a range guy and I miss getting into the middle of the scrum. Besides I want to try a champion fighter/shield master option, I think it could be more effective than people give them credit for.

Do you remember that heavily armored cleric/enchanter I was talking about statting up a week or two ago? He's got Shield Master.

Now, for bad news/good news!

Bad News: I missed last week's game, where I'd have started playing him.
Good News: Since he's not technically my current character, I voted in this poll based on my last character. My gnome battlemaster.

Go Team Fighter!