D&D 5E Polymorph and a Box

[mellored]

RAW doesn't seem to have anything preventing the falling damage on a snail, but the Sprite could just cast fly on my eldritch knight (20 Strength) who grapples the enemy then flies as high as he can and drops the enemy on a boulder (providing for a not soft surface).

It's not what you land on, it's surface area vs weight. It's how parachutes work.

Smaller animals get the same effect for free. Their surface area is much bigger compared to their weight. So their body acts as their own parachute.

So a more realistic thing would be like...

30d6 for large creatures.
20d6 for medium creatures.
10d6 for small creatures.
no damage for tiny or smaller.

 

[plisnithus8]

Instead of worrying about putting the poly-ed-to-snail foe into a box just drop it several feet down a small crack in the bedrock....

As for the poly-then-drop-from-height idea...wouldn't it be easier just to either a) fly out over some deep water and drop, or b) just poly the foe into a fish in the first place and leave it where it lies?

As far as the bedrock, some DMs would rule the creature might appear enlarged in the closet space large enough for its form or that its growth pushes it up the crack.

I'm not sure what the deep water has to do with anything - if anything, the water would be a dlightly softer surface to splat against.
And just turning it into s fish would sufficate the fish, but then at zero hp for the fish it reverts back to original firm and only carry over damage effects the original form so no carry iver in thus case.
That's why I'd drop him from at least 200 feet.

 

[plisnithus8]

It's not what you land on, it's surface area vs weight. It's how parachutes work.

Smaller animals get the same effect for free. Their surface area is much bigger compared to their weight. So their body acts as their own parachute.

So a more realistic thing would be like...

30d6 for large creatures.
20d6 for medium creatures.
10d6 for small creatures.
no damage for tiny or smaller.

You say it's what you land on, but I only added landing on a boulder because snickersnax example mentioned survivability if creatures landed on a soft surface.

So either we go by RAW which means the snail and all other creatures take 1d6 per 10' or - if you want to change that to be more realistic - just gly and drop the original creature without polymorph.

 

[mellored]

So either we go by RAW which means the snail and all other creatures take 1d6 per 10' or - if you want to change that to be more realistic - just gly and drop the original creature without polymorph.

Correct. It's a valid stratagy either way.

It also works with other spells as well. Such as sleep + drop, or hypnotic pattern + drop. Which might be easier since they won't struggle. Though polymorph makes them lighter.

 

[Dausuul]

(I am taking this as a "What would be your ruling?" question rather than a "What do the Official Rules say?" question. The answer to the latter is "Nothing.")

Hmm. Here's what I would rule:

1. The creature's growth creates strong pressure. Only an extraordinary container (made of adamantine, massively reinforced, etc.) can withstand it.
2. The creature's growth will never, by itself, cause injury. Thus, the creature will not impale itself by growing into a spike. Like a tree, it can grow around the spike as long as the transformation is in progress.
3. If a container is strong enough to withstand the pressure, the transforming body will tend to flow out, ooze-like, through any crack it can find. It then completes the transformation in open air.
4. If the container does not break and has no openings, the creature remains in flux, a shifting liquid form. It does not need air or food. Its weight is either 60 pounds per cubic foot of the container, or the creature's "real" weight, whichever is less. It is conscious and can use mental abilities.
5. The instant the container opens or breaks, the transformation completes and the creature resumes its own form.

Note that these rules are aimed at making things more interesting--not at trying to save a creature which was doomed the moment its last ally fell. The way to stop polymorph from being fatal to its target is for one of the target's buddies to step up and whack the wizard upside the head until s/he loses concentration. If the target has no buddies left, too bad.

 

[pming]

Hiya!

In situations like these, I also use the...what do you want to call it? "Cheese Factor?", "Intention of?", or maybe the "Startrek Transporter Logic?" effect. That is...sure, the "RAW" may indicate one thing, but the RAW also can't cover everything possible. Ergo, needing a DM.

A player trying to do this is trying to, imho, "cheat the system". He's trying to "Bag of Rats", or "Pun-Pun" the game. This is never fun or good for a campaign in the long run. Oh, sure, may be amusing the first time it comes up, but like mom always used to say...It's all fun and games until someone looses a PC.

DM: You failed your save? Ok then. You turn into a fish. Then he puts you in a small iron box. Then puts that in a Leomunds Chest. You die. Make a new PC. That was sure fun, wasn't it?

The player would be non-plussed. Maybe be amused the first time it happened...but after the group sees this happen multiple times over a few months play? Not so much fun anymore.

Personally, it fails my "Intent trumps RAW" DM guideline. What is the intent of the caster? To turn someone into a fish? Ok. Fine. That's the kind of thing Polymorph is for. ... ... To insta-kill something with a spell that isn't intended to do that? Nope. Fails the "intent" smell test. The PLAYER is intending to kill his opponent via some rules Shenanigans (my friend calls this the "Shenanigans" rule; but anyone can call Shenanigans once per session, on anything, for a pause in the game and a group discussion).

But that's me. YMMV.

^_^

Paul L. Ming

 

[plisnithus8]

to insta-kill something with a spell that isn't intended to do that? Nope. Fails the "intent" smell test. The PLAYER is intending to kill his opponent via some rules Shenanigans

That seems like saying the Sleep spell isn't intended for insta-kill so putting a hobgoblin to sleep and rolling her off of a cliff is a rules shenanigan. As a DM I encourage my players to use their spells and other resources in creative ways.

If a party keeps letting one of their own continually be polymorphed and stuffed into a box to die, then shame on them.

 

[pming]

Hiya!

That seems like saying the Sleep spell isn't intended for insta-kill so putting a hobgoblin to sleep and rolling her off of a cliff is a rules shenanigan. As a DM I encourage my players to use their spells and other resources in creative ways.

If a party keeps letting one of their own continually be polymorphed and stuffed into a box to die, then shame on them.

True enough, however, it's a fine line between "This spell, if successful, gives me the option of killing", and "This spell, if successful, and then I do a couple more things, gives me the option of killing". I know, splitting hairs and all that, but from my perspective, there is a difference. Again, YMMV.

^_^

Paul L. Ming

 

[see]

It's not cheese, it's how the spell has always worked. If you get polymorphed by an enemy spellcaster, and your enemies win, you die (barring mercy on their part). If your allies win the field, you can be restored without having to come back from death.

All the specific curlicues around polymorph other (in original three-booklet D&D, AD&D, AD&D 2nd, D&D 3rd), polymorph others (in B/X, BECMI, and the Rules Cyclopedia), and baleful polymorph (D&D 3.5) amounted to, "Yeah, you can't insta-kill them during the combat with a trivial action, but after combat it takes just a little thought to manage it". You couldn't just trod a troll converted into a snail under your boot (per the original D&D booklets), but it didn't take too much thought to figure out how to dispose of one.

So, if the specific way you want to kill him after combat is over is by putting him in a strong box, well, that's the way you killed him. It sucks to fail a save against a hostile polymorph, and sucks worse if your opponents win.

 

[Krachek]

So what happens when you polymorph someone (say a medium human/humanoid) into a small fish, snail, turtle, small whatever with little or no movement speed, and then pick them up and put them in a small arcane-locked iron box. And then end the polymorph spell?

What happens to the creature and what happens to the box?

What modifications can be made to the box to make whatever your ruling is more deadly if its not already?

Spikes pointing into the box?

Small holes in the box to relieve some pressure?

A larger box that actually has enough volume to barely fit the original creature with small holes that swords can be inserted into?

Is the someone a Pc or an Npc?