PrC: The Seeker of the Elemental Song

[Bront]

Wow, those are some outrageous prerequisites. You have to be 10th level to take this PrC, unless I'm missing something, and you have a special requirement which no character has done to date, that I'm aware of.

I'm not so certain about the Knowledge (Nature) requirement. Perhaps (The Planes) would be more appropriate?

Also, given that the class is heavily focused on bardic music, saying that that is a required ability would not be that outrageous.

I wanted to add a little bit of LEW flavor for the Reqs, but I can remove that.

The Nature idea is that the Song of the Elements is what ultimately binds nature togeather. So it treats the Elements as natural instead of planar.

It's listed as a requirement, the first listed special.

The last sentence here is confusing. What do you mean, exactly?

It's a Song, so you have to perform it with Music. Bardic Music can technicaly be performed with Comedy, Oratory, Dance, or any use of the Perform skill. However, the Song requires distinct notes, so it needs to be done in a way that creates them (Singing, String, Woodwind, hense the requirements).

I'll admit that I'm not a fan of classes with their own spellcasting progression. I think that you should essentially require a member of this class to have taken a level of bard, by requiring that they have the bardic music ability, and then give this class a +1 spellcasting progression off of their bard level, using the Seeker list henceforth.

That's exactly what I do. Maybe it wasn't clear enough, but you missed the requirement, and the spellcasting works exactly how you described (or else how would you ever get to 6th level spells?)

How do you gain access to these? When you indicate "Song of the Elements Part I" on the table, do you mean that the Seeker gains access to one of the following songs? This needs to be clarified.

There are 5 songs, Song of the Earth, Song of the Sea, Song of the Wind, Song of the Sun, and Song of Chaos. You pick one.

- Lasting Melody -
I really think that you need to spell out the majority of what this song does, and then mention that other effects may also be affected under the DM's discretion.

Also, I think that the mechanic you have there is awkward. It should be something like "they are allowed a new saving throw, but may choose to use the Seeker's Perform check instead."

The effect I was going for was to create a temporary alleviation of most effects (Poison, Disease, and Curses specificly, but also things like addictions, and potentialy other things along those lines), but, as Rystil brought up in a previous thread, Death could be considered a condition, so I had to exclude some. It is hard to quantify, so if you can figure out better wording so it works on the types of things I listed and not on death, stunned, fatigued, etc, by all means do. It's also possable adjusting the duration may make it simpler.

- Strength of the Stone -
That's neat. I have no issue with this.

- Gusting Melody -
Again, that's neat, and I have no issue with it.

- Whisper of the Wind -
At first glance, this seems absurd, but then a wizard can teleport at 9th, so being able to do this at 11th at earliest via the Seeker is not that bad. I'm fine with this.

Number of people is also more limited, and Mishaps means you don't go instead of getting close, so it's better or worse in some ways too. Theorecticly, they can teleport with every bardic music per day, but given that that denies them anything else to do, I don't see a huge problem with that.

- Misty Melody -
Are you saying that the damage the song absorbs "recharges" every round? So if you have somebody with 20 ranks in Perform, each round this song is working, it prevents 20 points of damage?

Protection from elements is 12/level total that is once and done. This is basicly absorption of up to Rank (20 in your example) per round, that comes back each round, up till 5 rounds after the song ends. Since Max Ranks = CL + 3, It takes till the 10th round to be better than the spell at CL 11, and the 11th round at CL20 (And is somewhere in between at every other level), it's not as usefull as Mass Protection from Elements, other than he might get it earlier than a caster might (If it exists, it'd be about a 6th level spell)

- Babbling of the River -
That's nifty, and I have no issue with it.

- Radiant Melody -
Turning undead... it really shouldn't be at a level equal to his ranks in Perform, because that means that he'll turn better than a cleric his level.

Treating Seeker levels as cleric levels would be a bit better, I think, for purposes of turning undead.

Potentialy, but he can't destroy, and doesn't get the KN: Religion synergy, and it goes away pretty quickly after you stop performing.

Then it's ulta-underpowered. What undead will an 11th level character face that can be turned by a 1st level cleric?

- Radiant Melody -
Nifty, and I think you meant "...2d6 per Seeker level..."

Nah, I want it to be more powerful the more seekers you have sitting around singing
Yeah, I'll get that fixed, nice spot.

- Jarring Melody -
I see what you're trying to do, but it should be worded differently. "The saving throw DC for this effect is equal to the Seeker's ranks in Perform" would be much better.

Also, I think this ability affects far too many people. Affect 30 creatures at 10th level... when your Perform bonus is going to be absurd. It does seem a little overpowered.

Missed that one, should be 10 + Perform Ranks.

I should probably put a range limit on it, but confusing 30 creatures at Level 10 is not that exciting compared to many 9th level wizard spells, and less than 3 at level 1 is underpowered. As for the save at 10 + perform, previous comments in a different post on that. (10 + 1/2 perform + Cha isn't that different either, and I like the perform based aspect of most of this.)

- Absence of Order -
Hmm, this sounds alright. Again with the wording of the line about the saving throw, but other than that, looks fine to me.

I'm open to better wording, but save was supposed to be the same intent as above. The acid was the only meh I was on, I guess I could have that do force damage that is subject to DR to simulate the slam of earth.

(The special abilities)
That's nifty, and I don't see a problem with it.

That is awesome for a bard or bard-like character. I have no issue with it.

Again, a nifty thing for a bard to be able to do, and again, I have no issue with it.

I have no issue with this.

Again, nifty ability, and again, no issues here.

So this basically lets you do all five at once, right? In that case, I'm fine with it. It's not that outrageous of an ability at 10th, given that a character isn't capable of getting this until 20th character level.

Glad you like them

And the 20th level one does let you do all five, but over the course of 5 rounds. So, it's not till round 2 that you have more than 2 effects happening at the same time. And yes, at 20th, given the power up time, it seems far from unreasonable.

I realy do appreciate all the comments. Hopefully I answered most of them, and I can fix the typo and the save wording on those other 2 abilities.

 

[Bront]

I find the 10 + 1/2 ranks + Cha modifier more appropriate, but now I find that strong but reasonable... I think that will handle the main abusive possibility, the items bonus like a shard that could raise the DC to epic level for a none epic character...

For the Lasting Melody, I would rather go for simplicity and give only one duration. Maybe 1 hour per Seeker level, which sound correct.

But I must told that I like the idea for now, I just prefer to prevent any possible abuse that someone could come with, even if it is in a few years...

The 2 save powers would be the only ones using Charisma, I guess I can see that, but it realy doesn't change things much, just drops the DCs by 1-5 depending on the build. I like the perform mechanic more for flavor reasons too.

Yeah, the duration is a bit wonky, I can see adjusting that.

And yes, I don't want it abused, I want it a flavorful alternitive to the Bard.

 

[Velmont]

And yes, I don't want it abused, I want it a flavorful alternitive to the Bard.

You got it right in that case... I almost regret not to have a bard among my characters

 

[Velmont]

Stength of Stone

The maximum HP healed, is it by allies or the total that is distributed among his allies (just to make things clear here.)

 

[Bront]

Stength of Stone

The maximum HP healed, is it by allies or the total that is distributed among his allies (just to make things clear here.)

Per person. It's generaly equivilent to a Mass Cure, potentialy better if you packed the area, but in most cases about the same.

 

[Knight Otu]

In general, it seems this class allows bards to partially fill in for other casters (wizard and/or cleric) at high levels.

Special: Must have visited or at least been near one of the six towers. Close enough to hear the song eminating from it. (Line of sight)

Good thing you added the "near one" bit. Visited appears to be quite a harsh prerequisite.

All the following are Class Features of the Outrider prestige class.

I won't give a hint to what's wrong here.

The Seeker can not use seeker levels or abilities with any Perform type (such as oratory or dancing).

"The Seeker can not use seeker levels or abilities with any other Perform type.

Song of the Elements Parts: There are 5 parts to the Song of the Elements, Each part having a melody and a finale. The melody can be used and sustained as per normal bardic music rules. The finally effects work like bardic music as well, except the finales end after their effects happen, and may not be maintained.

"There are 5 parts to the Song of the Elements, each part having a melody and a finale. At each odd level, the Seeker learns one part, and can use the melody and the finale of that part. The melody can be used and sustained as per normal bardic music rules. The finale effects work like bardic music as well, except the finales end after their effects happen, and may not be maintained."

Song of the Sun
- Radiant Melody - This Song allows the Seeker to turn (but not destroy) undead at a level equal to the number of perform ranks of the Seeker. The song requires concentration, and the effects wear off 1 round after the song ends.

I'm with the others thinking that that seems a bit much. Perhaps using half ranks might be better?

- Essence of the Morning - This Song calls forth a ray of searing sunlight, scorching one opponent. The effect is a Ray that does 2d6 per Seeker (4d6 vs. Undead and creatures vulnerable to sunlight/fire), and is a ranged touch attack using the Seeker's perform check to hit. After the strike, the song ends.

2d6 what? I presume fire damage?

 

[Rystil Arden]

I'm with the others thinking that that seems a bit much. Perhaps using half ranks might be better?

@The turning song--Using perform ranks isn't really a problem. I still think that nobody would choose to pick this one above the others, and if you nerf it to anything less than ranks - 3 at the lowest, it will become unplayably useless. The key to the matter is the fact that you can't pick up this ability until level 11 at the very earliest. At lower levels, turning undead is incredibly powerful, and turning undead at a +3 caster level is invaluable. At higher levels, you reach a turning point (sorry for the unintentional pun) where you can't turn anything you fight ever again. At this point, the only use of higher level for turning is to destroy a higher HD of mooks, and this song doesn't destroy them anyway. It isn't even instantaneous like the cleric turn--it takes concentration.

Note also that a cleric with a Phylactery of Undead Turning (a mere 11,000 gp expenditure, pennies for a level 11 character) can use the much-more-powerful normal turning rules at a +4 cleric level, which is higher than the Seeker.

 

[Bront]

In general, it seems this class allows bards to partially fill in for other casters (wizard and/or cleric) at high levels.

Good thing you added the "near one" bit. Visited appears to be quite a harsh prerequisite.

Yeah, if you can think of some other RP thing that might be appropriate, but since people have done custom adventures before, no reason someone can't specificly journy to a tower to fill this. Keeping in mind it's likely to happen at a later level.

I won't give a hint to what's wrong here.

"The Seeker can not use seeker levels or abilities with any other Perform type.

"There are 5 parts to the Song of the Elements, each part having a melody and a finale. At each odd level, the Seeker learns one part, and can use the melody and the finale of that part. The melody can be used and sustained as per normal bardic music rules. The finale effects work like bardic music as well, except the finales end after their effects happen, and may not be maintained."

Typos! I'll get those fixed

I'm with the others thinking that that seems a bit much. Perhaps using half ranks might be better?

2d6 what? I presume fire damage?

On the turning, see RA's comments below, but basicly, without destroy, it's not extremely powerful. The only thing I can think of, is that if there are undead immune to turning, perhaps this song can effect them as if they had extra HD. But given no turn undead feats, magic items, or even the KN: Religion synergy (I should write this in) effect this turning, it requires concentration to maintain, and only lasts for 1 round afterwards, it's pretty fairly balanced by the extra ranks used as levels.

As for the other damage, it's based off of Searing Light, which does untyped damage.

 

[Bront]

Ok, put up version 2.2.

Fixed:
- Clairified leaning the Song of the Elements.
- Fixed the Essance of the Morning damage (It's now per level instead of per seeker)
- Fixed all saves that were Perform Bonus based to 10 + perform ranks.
- Fixed typo about bardic music usage and what forms of perform you can and can't use.

KO, GW, now that you've had time to think about it, what are your feelings on the Turn Undead ability now that you've had some time?

 

[GnomeWorks]

I have no issue with any of the class at this point, save for this.

- Jarring Melody - This song clouds the minds of those who hear the song. Up to 3 opponents per level of the Seeker within that can hear the Seeker must make a Will save vs. the Seeker's perform bonus or act as if under the Confusion spell. This effect requires concentration to maintain, and ends immediately upon the song ending.

The save here is rather awkward. I think it should be something a little more standard, like 10 + ranks in Perform, or the save DC is equal to a Perform check, similar to how the DC for a bard's Fascinate is set.