Fralex
Explorer
So, I'm starting to get the feeling that before we can come up with something that will satisfy most, we need to be on the same page about what's important in the artificer class. What makes it feel like an artificer.
On that note, I ask those of you still following this discussion: What, in your view, is the "heart" of the artificer class?
For me, the biggest thing was not actually the ability to craft magic items. At least, not exactly. I have always loved characters with a focus on crafting, but that's really because of the freedom being allowed to make stuff brings, not necessarily the power or utility of crafting. That's what was so important to me about unrestricted access to every spell. I love the feeling of making something just how I want it, of creating something new using the rules of a game. Like... deckbuilding in Magic: the Gathering. It's the same feeling. Sure, I'm not inventing new cards, but there are so many cards to choose from that my decisions about which ones to include in a deck feel very much my own ideas. I'm bringing things together in ways not specifically planned for in the game's mechanics.
That wizard subclass is like being told to let my imagination run wild and make whatever deck I want, then being limited to like five different cards with no synergy. I want to be a magical inventor, not just a magic user. Selecting some pre-made options off a short list doesn't allow creativity! I'm just using someone else's ideas.
Like I said, the way artificers could use any spell is what provided that creative freedom in the first artificer class. If we do that again, it would probably be a good idea to make it a little more constraining than before, as being able to just automatically know every spell felt a bit too easy. Maybe have a spell-gathering mechanic similar to a wizard's spellbook.
Or, we could create an entirely new list of special artificer spells, designed specifically for synergy and openendedness (in a way similar to how cards in deckbuilding games are designed, but not (obviously) in an overpowered way). Maybe a special artificer feature could allow you to concentrate on multiple spells at once, as long as they were all artificer spells. I don't want tons of options so my stuff can be way powerful, I just want enough that my stuff really feels like it's mine.
(TL;DR) So yeah. I say creative freedom is the most essential quality of the artificer class. Things like magic item crafting, using armor, and wielding cleric-level weapons are all important parts of the class that fill out its feel, but if you have all that stuff without any options that encourage creativity, it won't feel like an artificer to me. From what I've seen Keith Baker say about the class, it seems he feels this aspect is important as well.
Is this the general consensus among artificer fans, or do some enjoy it for an entirely different reason? I'm curious to know!
On that note, I ask those of you still following this discussion: What, in your view, is the "heart" of the artificer class?
For me, the biggest thing was not actually the ability to craft magic items. At least, not exactly. I have always loved characters with a focus on crafting, but that's really because of the freedom being allowed to make stuff brings, not necessarily the power or utility of crafting. That's what was so important to me about unrestricted access to every spell. I love the feeling of making something just how I want it, of creating something new using the rules of a game. Like... deckbuilding in Magic: the Gathering. It's the same feeling. Sure, I'm not inventing new cards, but there are so many cards to choose from that my decisions about which ones to include in a deck feel very much my own ideas. I'm bringing things together in ways not specifically planned for in the game's mechanics.
That wizard subclass is like being told to let my imagination run wild and make whatever deck I want, then being limited to like five different cards with no synergy. I want to be a magical inventor, not just a magic user. Selecting some pre-made options off a short list doesn't allow creativity! I'm just using someone else's ideas.
Like I said, the way artificers could use any spell is what provided that creative freedom in the first artificer class. If we do that again, it would probably be a good idea to make it a little more constraining than before, as being able to just automatically know every spell felt a bit too easy. Maybe have a spell-gathering mechanic similar to a wizard's spellbook.
Or, we could create an entirely new list of special artificer spells, designed specifically for synergy and openendedness (in a way similar to how cards in deckbuilding games are designed, but not (obviously) in an overpowered way). Maybe a special artificer feature could allow you to concentrate on multiple spells at once, as long as they were all artificer spells. I don't want tons of options so my stuff can be way powerful, I just want enough that my stuff really feels like it's mine.
(TL;DR) So yeah. I say creative freedom is the most essential quality of the artificer class. Things like magic item crafting, using armor, and wielding cleric-level weapons are all important parts of the class that fill out its feel, but if you have all that stuff without any options that encourage creativity, it won't feel like an artificer to me. From what I've seen Keith Baker say about the class, it seems he feels this aspect is important as well.
Is this the general consensus among artificer fans, or do some enjoy it for an entirely different reason? I'm curious to know!