(Proposal) Learner Prestige Class

[GnomeWorks]

Would that spell take up a talents known slot? Would it be limited to certain spell levels? Would it, in all aspects (except from being monster-learned), be a talent?

It would be just like a talent learned from studying herself. I think it would be from any spell level the learner could cast from her previous spellcasting class (which, if a character persues the learner at the earliest possible time, is 2nd level).

Reminds me... is the learner still barred from learning abilities group into Spell-Like Abilities blocks?

If not, he could always Observe a gnome.

I'm going to say yes for now. It's been awhile since I looked them over, and I should probably do that again since the learner has changed so much.

I could see allowing a Learner to use one slot for one of his spells. I think what you do, is make an ability called "Spell at Tallent" at first level, that allows the learner to try to learn any one spell he can already cast as a talent with a DC of 10 + spell level, and takes 1 hour per try. At any one time, the Learner can have only one spell learned in such a manner, and can replace it normaly.

The time is because you're studying yourself, instead of actualy hitting yourself with the spell (I supposed you could force yourself to do it that way instead, but that sounds silly), but it has a low DC, and if you make it too easy to swap out, it's like basicly letting the learner have up to 15 free castings of any spell he chooses.

I envision this ability as being something that, once selected, can't be changed. The learner can choose to unlearn that ability, but if she tries to learn something from herself again, she learns that spell again.

I don't think it should require a check; it should just be part of becoming a learner.

But that's all assuming we use that idea - I don't know if it's a good idea, and I don't know if it fits the flavor of the class. I was just throwing it out there as a possibility.

 

[Bront]

I envision this ability as being something that, once selected, can't be changed. The learner can choose to unlearn that ability, but if she tries to learn something from herself again, she learns that spell again.

I don't think it should require a check; it should just be part of becoming a learner.

But that's all assuming we use that idea - I don't know if it's a good idea, and I don't know if it fits the flavor of the class. I was just throwing it out there as a possibility.

If it's a one time, and you can never learn another ability from yourself again, then no check should be required, I agree. I think it does fit the class to a point, particularly allowing for them to actualy use their abilities initialy. Or, you could give them some base ability, or even to automaticly learn one ability they'v encountered previously at each level (Kind of like the automatic spell a wizard gets).

 

[GnomeWorks]

If it's a one time, and you can never learn another ability from yourself again, then no check should be required, I agree. I think it does fit the class to a point, particularly allowing for them to actualy use their abilities initialy. Or, you could give them some base ability, or even to automaticly learn one ability they'v encountered previously at each level (Kind of like the automatic spell a wizard gets).

An alternative I was considering was having one talent for each race, or something, to represent inherent racial abilities that only learners can tap (though that would be hard to explain).

Alternatively, we could have a list of talents that are pretty low level in effect (0th-2nd, probably), that aren't like the normal spells, but can't be learned, and have that choice at first level reflect the learner's personality... or something.

 

[Knight Otu]

An alternative I was considering was having one talent for each race, or something, to represent inherent racial abilities that only learners can tap (though that would be hard to explain).

Alternatively, we could have a list of talents that are pretty low level in effect (0th-2nd, probably), that aren't like the normal spells, but can't be learned, and have that choice at first level reflect the learner's personality... or something.

Between these two and your original idea - the original idea is the most workable, imho. The first one will grow unwieldly once we have to worry about non-standard races, and the second - is similar to your original idea with some added complications.

 

[GnomeWorks]

Between these two and your original idea - the original idea is the most workable, imho. The first one will grow unwieldly once we have to worry about non-standard races, and the second - is similar to your original idea with some added complications.

Sounds like we'll go with the first idea, then.

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EDIT: Here is how it looks, in the class description...

Self-Study: At first level, the learner may choose one of her spells known from one of her previous arcane spellcasting class. The spell chosen can be of a spell level up to one less than her maximum spell level known for that class.

The spell chosen permanently becomes one of the learner's talents, and she loses the spell from her spells known for the class she took it from (the spell cannot be replaced until she gains a level in that class that would allow her to switch out spells, at which point she may choose to gain a new spell in place of the lost spell known).

If the learner switches out the talent she learns in this manner in order to learn a new talent, she may later spend an hour in meditation to relearn it at any time. However, if she has no available talents known, she must switch out another talent, just as though she were learning the talent normally (see Observation, above).

 

[Erekose13]

That sounds fine to me. I like that it is only one and can only be chosen when you first get it. And that it has a penalty (removed from spells known).

I have also included an xls copy of our monster special abilities file that we did up. I cant remember if this includes suggested changes that were included in the discussion after we posted the txt files.

 

[GnomeWorks]

Thanks for the list, Erekose... but looking through it, we're missing one set of creatures. Apparently, we never got around to the true dragons... so those need to be done. I'll see if I can work on those sometime this weekend.

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Anybody else have some comments?

 

[GnomeWorks]

...anybody else? Please?

 

[Erekose13]

Just checking on the impact of our changes if we do choose to use the big list.

Talents: All of a learner's talents have an equivalent spell level equal to her learner level - 1.

This one would become: "All of a learner's talents have an equivalent spell level equal to the rating found on the Monster Abilities sheet."

Talents: The save DC for a talent (if it allows a save) is 10 + equivalent spell level + the learner's Charisma modifier.

This one would be affected by the change above but doesnt need to be altered.

Observation: In order to learn the talent, the learner must make a Knowledge check against the Su or Sp ability’s saving throw DC. If it doesn’t have one, the DC to learn the ability is 10 + one-half the monster’s HD + the monster’s Charisma modifier (if the modifier is less than +0, it is considered +0 for purposes of learning).

I believe we set the DC to learn it in our sheet. So we could then provide a link to the sheet to look up the DC providing the formula just in case.

Note that we should also provide the formula for determining spell level, with the qualification that if the monster is non SRD then the ability has to be approved and pegged in this thread before the learner can learn it.

 

[GnomeWorks]

All your points are correct, Erekose.

And I agree that non-SRD monsters should have their abilities listed and the DC for learning them, and equivalent spell levels. We could probably convince a judge to do that if/when the learner gets thrown in the Heap; keep a list at the end of the post with the learner of non-SRD monsters and their abilities with the saving throw DCs and equivalent spell levels.