Knight Otu
First Post
I still don't see a mention if abiliies from Grouped Spell-Like Abilities can be learned.
After that, we should be able to get the voting procedure done.
After that, we should be able to get the voting procedure done.
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(Proposal) Learner Prestige Class
- Thread starter GnomeWorks
- Start date
GnomeWorks
Adventurer
That has now been noted, KO; I decided that, as before, they could not learn abilities listed under "Spell-like Abilities".
GnomeWorks
Adventurer
Update...
Since CS mentioned awhile ago that he didn't like the Sense Motive vs. Bluff for the Examine and Analyze ability, I decided to change them to a Lore check opposed by a Will save.
Since CS mentioned awhile ago that he didn't like the Sense Motive vs. Bluff for the Examine and Analyze ability, I decided to change them to a Lore check opposed by a Will save.
GnomeWorks
Adventurer
Repost for easier judging.
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The Learner, v6.1
Update to v6.1
Metamagic feats can no longer be applied to talents.
A learner can now use monster feats that modify spell-like abilities.
If image doesn't appear, picture is here.
LEARNER
The profession of learner is perhaps one of the most eccentric ones available. Unlike any other group, the learners gain their abilities not from training or knowledge, but through directly experiencing them at the claws of monsters.
Though it is easy enough to define what it is that a learner does, it is not so easy to classify them as a group. Each learner has come across different monsters in their individual careers, leading to an array of abilities that are unique for each learner. Some learners are generalists, learning abilities from a wide variety of monsters, while others focus on a very small subset of creatures and emulate their abilities to the fullest, while still others most focus on a specific type of creature and learn abilities only from them. It is for this reason, as well, that trying to recruit a learner for a task is difficult and sometimes frustrating: you never know what you'll get.
As NPCs, learners are usually not encountered in peaceful settings. They are often found in the wilderness, hunting down and researching monsters.
Hit Die: d6.
REQUIREMENTS
To qualify to become a learner, a character must fulfill the following requirements.
BAB: +4.
Skills: Knowledge (arcana) 6 ranks, Knowledge (nature) 6 ranks.
Feats: Endurance.
Spells: Able to spontaneously cast at least 2nd-level arcane spells.
CLASS SKILLS
The learner’s class skills are Concentration (Con), Craft (Int), Handle Animal (Cha), Intimidate (Cha), Knowledge (Arcana) (Int), Knowledge (Dungeoneering) (Int), Knowledge (Nature) (Int), Knowledge (Religion), Knowlege (The Planes) (Int), Profession (Wis), Ride (Dex), Spot (Wis), Sense Motive (Wis), and Spellcraft (Int).
Skill Points at Each Additional Level: 4 + Intelligence modifier
CLASS FEATURES
All the following are class features of the learner prestige class.
Weapon and Armor Proficiency: Learners gain no new proficiencies.
When in light armor, a learner does not suffer from arcane spell failure when using her talents (see below).
Talents (Sp): Learners do not prepare or cast spells as more standard users of magic do. Instead, they utilize the abilities of monsters that they have learned through direct interaction with creatures; these abilities are known simply as talents. A learner can use any talent she knows at will (though she is limited to a set number per day), with the following qualifications:
A learner's talents are spell-like abilities, even if the ability they mimic are supernatural; using a talent is therefore at least a standard action (if the ability the talent was learned from took longer, then it takes that long instead) and provokes an attack of opportunity. A talent can be disrupted, just as a spell can be ruined during casting. A learner is entitled to a Concentration check to successfully use a talent if she is hit by an attack while concentrating, just as a spellcaster would be. A learner can choose to use a talent defensively, by making a successful Concentration check, to avoid provoking attacks of opportunity. A learner's talents are subject to spell resistance unless a talent's description specifically states otherwise. A learner's caster level with her talents is equal to her learner level + her caster level in her previous arcane spellcasting class (if she had more than one, she uses to meet the prerequisites of the learner class; if more than one fulfill this criteria, then she may choose which class to use). All of a learner's talents have an equivalent spell level equal to one-half her learner level, rounded down, with a minimum of 1st level.
The save DC for a talent (if it allows a save) is 10 + equivalent spell level + the learner's Charisma modifier. Since spell-like abilities are not spells, a learner cannot benefit from the Spell Focus feat. She can, however, benefit from the Ability Focus feat (note that the learner must choose a specific talent this feat applies to, rather than her talents as a whole). Also, she can learn the feats Empower Spell-Like Ability and Quicken Spell-Like Ability; when she takes one of these feats, she chooses one of her talents to apply them to. The learner ignores the restrictions on spell level regarding which talent she may choose (she can choose any of her talents), but retains the restriction on uses per day (she can only use the empowered or quickened version of the talent three times per day).
As the learner progresses, she gains the ability to learn more talents, as shown on Table L-2: Learner Talents.
A learner's talents work exactly as specified in the description of the monster ability. If the monster would require a specific item to use the ability, the learner must have that item to utilize the talent; the item works as a spell focus and is not consumed, unless otherwise stated in the monster ability's description. All talents also have a somatic component, and some may have a verbal component dependent on the talent in question (usually specified in the monster ability's description). If the ability does not have a duration listed, or is a continuous ability, the learner's talent lasts for 1 round/learner level.
To use a talent, the learner has only to expend a single use of her talents/day. This is true for any talent she knows.
Note that a learner can only learn talents from monster abilities that are inherent. An ability gained from class levels or feats cannot be learned as a talent. An ability that is part of a set of abilities listed under "Spell-like Abilities" cannot be learned; only abilities listed as "Ability Name (Sp or Su)" can be learned. Multiple abilities listed under (Su) can be learned, however.
Finally, unlike other spell-like abilities, talents are subject to arcane spell failure.
Observation (Su): The primary way that a learner learns her talents is through observation. As a standard action, a learner can watch monsters present within 60 feet. If any of them should use an Su or Sp ability until the learner’s next action, the learner may attempt to learn the talent associated with that ability.
In order to learn the talent, the learner must make a Knowledge check against the Su or Sp ability’s saving throw DC. If it doesn’t have one, the DC to learn the ability is 10 + one-half the monster’s HD + the monster’s Charisma modifier (if the modifier is less than +0, it is considered +0 for purposes of learning). If the learner succeeds, she learns the talent associated with that ability, so long as she has not learned her maximum number of talents.
The specific Knowledge check depends upon the type of the monster the ability is being learned from.
If he does not have an available talent slot, she can still learn the talent, though she must switch out a talent she already knows to do so. The learner can do this as a move action; however, she must choose to do so within a number of rounds after she would have normally learned the talent equal to her Wisdom modifier. The learner permanently loses the swapped-out talent, but she can attempt to relearn it normally.
Example: A learner with a Wisdom of 14 has no open talent slots, and is subjected to a basilisk's gaze. Surviving, she wants to try to learn the talent. To do so, she must take a move action within 2 rounds of being subjected to the basilisk's gaze to learn that talent, and she must lose another talent to make room for the new one.
If the learner fails, she does not learn the talent. However, the next time she attempts to learn that talent in the same combat, she gets a +1 competence bonus on her Knowledge check to learn the talent for each time she has failed.
If the learner is attacked with an Su or Sp ability while observing, she gets a +4 bonus on the Knowledge check to learn that talent.
Lore: Learners are well-versed in the nature of monstrosities. As such, she may make a special knowledge check with a bonus equal to her learner level + her Intelligence modifier to see whether she knows some relevant information concerning a monster or learner talent.
A successful lore check will not reveal the powers of a magic item related to learner talents but may given a hint as to its general function. A learner may not take 10 or take 20 on this check; this sort of knowledge is essentially random.
A learner can make a Lore check to determine what learner talents can be learned from a given monster; the DC is equal to 10 + the monster’s HD.
Self-Study: At first level, the learner may choose one of her spells known from one of her previous arcane spellcasting class. The spell chosen can be of a spell level up to one less than her maximum spell level known for that class.
The spell chosen permanently becomes one of the learner's talents, and she loses the spell from her spells known for the class she took it from (the spell cannot be replaced until she gains a level in that class that would allow her to switch out spells, at which point she may choose to gain a new spell in place of the lost spell known).
If the learner switches out the talent she learns in this manner in order to learn a new talent, she may later spend an hour in meditation to relearn it at any time. However, if she has no available talents known, she must switch out another talent, just as though she were learning the talent normally (see Observation, above).
Examine (Ex): At 2nd level, the learner gains the ability to judge an opponent’s or monster’s capabilities. As a standard action, the learner makes a Lore check, opposed by the opponent's Will save. If the learner succeeds, she determines the target’s current hit points, creature type, and what will penetrate its DR (if any). If the learner fails, she cannot attempt to use this ability on that opponent again for the rest of that day.
Effects that prevent the creature from being scryed also prevent the learner from using Examine on it.
Conversion (Su): At 4th level, the learner has mastered the art of converting her arcane energy into a shield to enable her to survive the abilities of monsters. In effect, she gains a DR equal to her Wisdom modifier. Each time this DR prevents damage, she loses one use of a talent. Each time she is dealt damage, the learner chooses whether or not to activate this ability.
A learner suffers no adverse effects from losing talent slots in this way.
Analyze (Ex): At 6th level, the learner has become adept at judging her opponents and monsters. As a standard action, the learner makes a Lore check, opposed by the opponent's Will save. If the learner succeeds, she determines the target’s current and max hit points, creature type and subtypes, how powerful its DR is and what will penetrate it (if any), and any immunities or vulnerabilities it has (if any). If the learner fails, she cannot attempt to use this ability or Examine on that opponent again for the rest of that day.
Effects that prevent the creature from being scryed also prevent the learner from using Analyze on it.
Resistance (Ex): At eighth level, the learner begins to become more resistant to conditions that would impede him and his ability to learn. He gains a +2 resistance bonus on saving throws against effects that would cause the following conditions: ability damage, blinded, confused, dazed, dazzled, deafened, diseased, exhausted, fatigued, feebleminded, insanity, nauseated, sickened, stunned, and poisoned.
Continual Observation (Su): At 10th level, the learner has mastered the art of being continually alert. She is now considered observing at all times, and she does not need to take a standard action to observe; however, the maximum range for continual observation is 5 feet/2 learner levels.
The learner can still observe as a standard action.
-----
The Learner, v6.1
Update to v6.1
Metamagic feats can no longer be applied to talents.
A learner can now use monster feats that modify spell-like abilities.
If image doesn't appear, picture is here.
LEARNER
The profession of learner is perhaps one of the most eccentric ones available. Unlike any other group, the learners gain their abilities not from training or knowledge, but through directly experiencing them at the claws of monsters.
Though it is easy enough to define what it is that a learner does, it is not so easy to classify them as a group. Each learner has come across different monsters in their individual careers, leading to an array of abilities that are unique for each learner. Some learners are generalists, learning abilities from a wide variety of monsters, while others focus on a very small subset of creatures and emulate their abilities to the fullest, while still others most focus on a specific type of creature and learn abilities only from them. It is for this reason, as well, that trying to recruit a learner for a task is difficult and sometimes frustrating: you never know what you'll get.
As NPCs, learners are usually not encountered in peaceful settings. They are often found in the wilderness, hunting down and researching monsters.
Hit Die: d6.
REQUIREMENTS
To qualify to become a learner, a character must fulfill the following requirements.
BAB: +4.
Skills: Knowledge (arcana) 6 ranks, Knowledge (nature) 6 ranks.
Feats: Endurance.
Spells: Able to spontaneously cast at least 2nd-level arcane spells.
CLASS SKILLS
The learner’s class skills are Concentration (Con), Craft (Int), Handle Animal (Cha), Intimidate (Cha), Knowledge (Arcana) (Int), Knowledge (Dungeoneering) (Int), Knowledge (Nature) (Int), Knowledge (Religion), Knowlege (The Planes) (Int), Profession (Wis), Ride (Dex), Spot (Wis), Sense Motive (Wis), and Spellcraft (Int).
Skill Points at Each Additional Level: 4 + Intelligence modifier
Code:
[color=white][b]TABLE L-1: THE LEARNER
Fort Will Ref
Lvl BAB Save Save Save Special[/b]
1 +0 +0 +2 +0 Observation, Lore,
Self-Study
2 +1 +0 +3 +0 Examine
3 +2 +1 +3 +1
4 +3 +1 +4 +1 Conversion
5 +3 +1 +4 +1
6 +4 +2 +5 +2 Analyze
7 +5 +2 +5 +2
8 +6 +2 +6 +2 Resistance
9 +6 +3 +6 +3
10 +7 +3 +7 +3 Continual Learning[/color]All the following are class features of the learner prestige class.
Weapon and Armor Proficiency: Learners gain no new proficiencies.
When in light armor, a learner does not suffer from arcane spell failure when using her talents (see below).
Talents (Sp): Learners do not prepare or cast spells as more standard users of magic do. Instead, they utilize the abilities of monsters that they have learned through direct interaction with creatures; these abilities are known simply as talents. A learner can use any talent she knows at will (though she is limited to a set number per day), with the following qualifications:
A learner's talents are spell-like abilities, even if the ability they mimic are supernatural; using a talent is therefore at least a standard action (if the ability the talent was learned from took longer, then it takes that long instead) and provokes an attack of opportunity. A talent can be disrupted, just as a spell can be ruined during casting. A learner is entitled to a Concentration check to successfully use a talent if she is hit by an attack while concentrating, just as a spellcaster would be. A learner can choose to use a talent defensively, by making a successful Concentration check, to avoid provoking attacks of opportunity. A learner's talents are subject to spell resistance unless a talent's description specifically states otherwise. A learner's caster level with her talents is equal to her learner level + her caster level in her previous arcane spellcasting class (if she had more than one, she uses to meet the prerequisites of the learner class; if more than one fulfill this criteria, then she may choose which class to use). All of a learner's talents have an equivalent spell level equal to one-half her learner level, rounded down, with a minimum of 1st level.
The save DC for a talent (if it allows a save) is 10 + equivalent spell level + the learner's Charisma modifier. Since spell-like abilities are not spells, a learner cannot benefit from the Spell Focus feat. She can, however, benefit from the Ability Focus feat (note that the learner must choose a specific talent this feat applies to, rather than her talents as a whole). Also, she can learn the feats Empower Spell-Like Ability and Quicken Spell-Like Ability; when she takes one of these feats, she chooses one of her talents to apply them to. The learner ignores the restrictions on spell level regarding which talent she may choose (she can choose any of her talents), but retains the restriction on uses per day (she can only use the empowered or quickened version of the talent three times per day).
As the learner progresses, she gains the ability to learn more talents, as shown on Table L-2: Learner Talents.
A learner's talents work exactly as specified in the description of the monster ability. If the monster would require a specific item to use the ability, the learner must have that item to utilize the talent; the item works as a spell focus and is not consumed, unless otherwise stated in the monster ability's description. All talents also have a somatic component, and some may have a verbal component dependent on the talent in question (usually specified in the monster ability's description). If the ability does not have a duration listed, or is a continuous ability, the learner's talent lasts for 1 round/learner level.
To use a talent, the learner has only to expend a single use of her talents/day. This is true for any talent she knows.
Note that a learner can only learn talents from monster abilities that are inherent. An ability gained from class levels or feats cannot be learned as a talent. An ability that is part of a set of abilities listed under "Spell-like Abilities" cannot be learned; only abilities listed as "Ability Name (Sp or Su)" can be learned. Multiple abilities listed under (Su) can be learned, however.
Finally, unlike other spell-like abilities, talents are subject to arcane spell failure.
Code:
[color=white][b]TABLE L-2: LEARNER TALENTS
Lvl Talents/Day Talents Known[/b]
1 2 + Wis mod 3 + Int mod
2 3 + Wis mod 5 + Int mod
3 5 + Wis mod 7 + Int mod
4 6 + Wis mod 9 + Int mod
5 8 + Wis mod 11 + Int mod
6 9 + Wis mod 13 + Int mod
7 10 + Wis mod 15 + Int mod
8 12 + Wis mod 17 + Int mod
9 13 + Wis mod 19 + Int mod
10 15 + Wis mod 21 + Int mod[/color]In order to learn the talent, the learner must make a Knowledge check against the Su or Sp ability’s saving throw DC. If it doesn’t have one, the DC to learn the ability is 10 + one-half the monster’s HD + the monster’s Charisma modifier (if the modifier is less than +0, it is considered +0 for purposes of learning). If the learner succeeds, she learns the talent associated with that ability, so long as she has not learned her maximum number of talents.
The specific Knowledge check depends upon the type of the monster the ability is being learned from.
Code:
[color=white][b]TABLE L-3: KNOWLEDGE SKILLS USED FOR OBSERVATION
Knowledge (...) Monster Types[/b]
Arcana constructs, dragons, magical beasts
Dungeoneering aberrations, oozes
Nature animals, fey, giants, humanoids, monstrous humanoids,
plants, vermin
Religion undead
The Planes elementals, outsiders[/color]Example: A learner with a Wisdom of 14 has no open talent slots, and is subjected to a basilisk's gaze. Surviving, she wants to try to learn the talent. To do so, she must take a move action within 2 rounds of being subjected to the basilisk's gaze to learn that talent, and she must lose another talent to make room for the new one.
If the learner fails, she does not learn the talent. However, the next time she attempts to learn that talent in the same combat, she gets a +1 competence bonus on her Knowledge check to learn the talent for each time she has failed.
If the learner is attacked with an Su or Sp ability while observing, she gets a +4 bonus on the Knowledge check to learn that talent.
Lore: Learners are well-versed in the nature of monstrosities. As such, she may make a special knowledge check with a bonus equal to her learner level + her Intelligence modifier to see whether she knows some relevant information concerning a monster or learner talent.
Code:
[color=white][b]TABLE L-4: LEARNER LORE
DC Type of Knowledge Examples[/b]
10 Common, known by at least a The weaknesses of lycanthropes; more
substantial minority of the local common learner talents.
population.
20 Uncommon but available, known The names of specific types of angels
by only a few people in the area. and eladrins; unusual learner talents.
25 Obscure, known by few, hard to The history of a race of monsters;
come by. powerful learner talents.
30 Extremely obscure, known by The history of an ancient, lost race;
very few. talents learned from extinct species.[/color]A learner can make a Lore check to determine what learner talents can be learned from a given monster; the DC is equal to 10 + the monster’s HD.
Self-Study: At first level, the learner may choose one of her spells known from one of her previous arcane spellcasting class. The spell chosen can be of a spell level up to one less than her maximum spell level known for that class.
The spell chosen permanently becomes one of the learner's talents, and she loses the spell from her spells known for the class she took it from (the spell cannot be replaced until she gains a level in that class that would allow her to switch out spells, at which point she may choose to gain a new spell in place of the lost spell known).
If the learner switches out the talent she learns in this manner in order to learn a new talent, she may later spend an hour in meditation to relearn it at any time. However, if she has no available talents known, she must switch out another talent, just as though she were learning the talent normally (see Observation, above).
Examine (Ex): At 2nd level, the learner gains the ability to judge an opponent’s or monster’s capabilities. As a standard action, the learner makes a Lore check, opposed by the opponent's Will save. If the learner succeeds, she determines the target’s current hit points, creature type, and what will penetrate its DR (if any). If the learner fails, she cannot attempt to use this ability on that opponent again for the rest of that day.
Effects that prevent the creature from being scryed also prevent the learner from using Examine on it.
Conversion (Su): At 4th level, the learner has mastered the art of converting her arcane energy into a shield to enable her to survive the abilities of monsters. In effect, she gains a DR equal to her Wisdom modifier. Each time this DR prevents damage, she loses one use of a talent. Each time she is dealt damage, the learner chooses whether or not to activate this ability.
A learner suffers no adverse effects from losing talent slots in this way.
Analyze (Ex): At 6th level, the learner has become adept at judging her opponents and monsters. As a standard action, the learner makes a Lore check, opposed by the opponent's Will save. If the learner succeeds, she determines the target’s current and max hit points, creature type and subtypes, how powerful its DR is and what will penetrate it (if any), and any immunities or vulnerabilities it has (if any). If the learner fails, she cannot attempt to use this ability or Examine on that opponent again for the rest of that day.
Effects that prevent the creature from being scryed also prevent the learner from using Analyze on it.
Resistance (Ex): At eighth level, the learner begins to become more resistant to conditions that would impede him and his ability to learn. He gains a +2 resistance bonus on saving throws against effects that would cause the following conditions: ability damage, blinded, confused, dazed, dazzled, deafened, diseased, exhausted, fatigued, feebleminded, insanity, nauseated, sickened, stunned, and poisoned.
Continual Observation (Su): At 10th level, the learner has mastered the art of being continually alert. She is now considered observing at all times, and she does not need to take a standard action to observe; however, the maximum range for continual observation is 5 feet/2 learner levels.
The learner can still observe as a standard action.
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GnomeWorks
Adventurer
I'm going to give this another bump.
LogicsFate
First Post
Some of the abilities you could potentially learn are permanent abilities of the monster (example the Beholders Anti-Magic Cone) Will you put a time limit on these?
GnomeWorks
Adventurer
LogicsFate said:
There is a limit on abilities that are normally permanent; they last 1 round/learner level. That should've been noted but was apparently left out of the latest revision, will be fixed shortly...
Knight Otu
First Post
I feel that I can give my yes on this, but I want to hear from the other judges first.
Last edited:
GnomeWorks
Adventurer
Knight Otu said:
I think you've said that almost every revision, KO, and I think that the other judges may feel the same way you do.
With that said, I don't want to rush anyone jumping to a conclusion; just making an observation.
