TwoHeadsBarking
First Post
Looks good to me.
Proposal : Starting Wealth for level 2 and 3
Any volunteers?EvolutionKB
First Post
I think the math proposed seems to work out pretty well too.
Stringbean2142
First Post
covaithe said:
Would we be implementing this for every level? I was under the impression we were just looking at level 2 and level 3 being unbalanced. If we're looking at every level, I'll throw together a spreadsheet here in a bit to compare current practice versus the proposed change at each level.
covaithe
Explorer
I feel like it would be nice to have a single set of rules, instead of one set at low levels and another set kicking in at 4. Also, I think I've heard it suggested that the DMG wealth method falls behind at higher levels, and that players who play through are richer. I'm curious to see if that's true.
I know it probably doesn't matter just now, since we're unlikely to have many retirements higher than level 3 any time soon, but I'd just as soon not fix this in a hurry and leave ourselves more work later.
I know it probably doesn't matter just now, since we're unlikely to have many retirements higher than level 3 any time soon, but I'd just as soon not fix this in a hurry and leave ourselves more work later.
JoeNotCharles
First Post
If we do end up with different systems for different levels, Heroic -> Paragon is a convenient cutoff point.
Mal Malenkirk
First Post
It is in an elegant solution to use essentially the same system for time gold and for starting character wealth.
I'd approve of that.
I'd approve of that.
Stringbean2142
First Post
I'm throwing those numbers together now; didn't have my DMG at work to get the parcel amounts. Also, it looks like the combined value of level 1 and 2 parcels given above is missing the 1,040 monetary treasure, so if the numbers are a bit different, that may be where it's coming from. Once I have them calculated, I'll post them here.
New Information
Ok, I've checked my numbers twice and I think they're good and covaithe, the idea that new characters fall behind the value of adventurers who play through is definitely confirmed; in fact, it's understating the situation.
At 5th level, a character created according to the DMG has a value of 4,480 gp. That's a level 6, level 5, and level 4 magic item with gold equal to a level 4 magic item. With the proposed change, summing the parcels, dividing by five, then taking out 20% as a retirement fee, a level 5 character would start with 9,186.4 gp worth of wealth. That could buy them a level 11 weapon, if they dumped almost everything into it.
At 10th, the DMG gives 22,400 gp. The proposed method gives 87,582.4 gp. At 15th, the DMG gives 112,000 gp while this new way gives 512,538.4 gp. At level 20, the DMG gives 560,000 gp, the new way gives 2,670,294.4 gp. In fact, the only two levels where our new method gives less than the DMG? Yep, levels 2 and 3. And this is after taking 20% back as a fee!
One thing that jumped out at me while calculating the numbers is, while adventurering blows the DMG out of the water, your choices are drastically reduced when it comes to magic items. You get what the DM gives, and if you want to get something else? You have to sell the item at a fraction of the total value. To be really fair, we should probably incorporate sale price as well as total value into the calculation, but at that point we've stopped playing DnD and are playing "Super Spreadsheets World."
Looking at the numbers, and the drastic difference at high levels in particular, I'd say we either find a better system for all levels, or treat levels 2 and 3 as distinct, because as it stands, a character started at level 24 under this proposed sytem could buy 3 level 30 magic items and still have around 400,000 gp left.
I have the spreadsheet saved; if anyone would like a copy, I can e-mail it to you. Send me an e-mail at byers2142@hotmail.com and I'll respond with the spreadsheet attached. Let me know if you want .xls or .ods format.
New Information
Ok, I've checked my numbers twice and I think they're good and covaithe, the idea that new characters fall behind the value of adventurers who play through is definitely confirmed; in fact, it's understating the situation.
At 5th level, a character created according to the DMG has a value of 4,480 gp. That's a level 6, level 5, and level 4 magic item with gold equal to a level 4 magic item. With the proposed change, summing the parcels, dividing by five, then taking out 20% as a retirement fee, a level 5 character would start with 9,186.4 gp worth of wealth. That could buy them a level 11 weapon, if they dumped almost everything into it.
At 10th, the DMG gives 22,400 gp. The proposed method gives 87,582.4 gp. At 15th, the DMG gives 112,000 gp while this new way gives 512,538.4 gp. At level 20, the DMG gives 560,000 gp, the new way gives 2,670,294.4 gp. In fact, the only two levels where our new method gives less than the DMG? Yep, levels 2 and 3. And this is after taking 20% back as a fee!
One thing that jumped out at me while calculating the numbers is, while adventurering blows the DMG out of the water, your choices are drastically reduced when it comes to magic items. You get what the DM gives, and if you want to get something else? You have to sell the item at a fraction of the total value. To be really fair, we should probably incorporate sale price as well as total value into the calculation, but at that point we've stopped playing DnD and are playing "Super Spreadsheets World."
Looking at the numbers, and the drastic difference at high levels in particular, I'd say we either find a better system for all levels, or treat levels 2 and 3 as distinct, because as it stands, a character started at level 24 under this proposed sytem could buy 3 level 30 magic items and still have around 400,000 gp left.
I have the spreadsheet saved; if anyone would like a copy, I can e-mail it to you. Send me an e-mail at byers2142@hotmail.com and I'll respond with the spreadsheet attached. Let me know if you want .xls or .ods format.
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I love the idea of Time Gold as the basis for this. Great idea Covaithe! I guess we'll see what the real results will look like once Stringbean2142 finishes the spreadsheet. Thanks for volunteering String! (I was going to do exactly what you're talking about doing [since I've got a ton of time on my hands today], but since you already volunteered I guess I won't duplicate any work lol)
Stringbean2142
First Post
Yeah, I figured I had the time (read: was at work, bored out of my mind), so I might as well throw this together. Besides, this is what I do all day, anyway. At least this time it's calculating fund I might some day see (even in a fantasy situation, not someone else's money.
