Psionic Manifester's adding powers

[LiquidBlue]

I wish to receive the opinion of others concerning this matter. I ask specificly concerning the powers known by psionic casters.

The following is from d20srd.org

Adding Powers

Psionic characters can learn new powers when they attain a new level. A psion can learn any power from the psion/wilder list and powers from his chosen discipline’s list. A wilder can learn any power from the psion/wilder list. A psychic warrior can learn any power from the psychic warrior list.

Powers Gained at a New Level

Psions and other psionic characters perform a certain amount of personal meditation between adventures in an attempt to unlock latent mental abilities. Each time a psionic character attains a new level, he or she learns additional powers according to his class description. Psions, psychic warriors, and wilders learn new powers of their choice in this fashion. These powers represent abilities unlocked from latency. The powers must be of levels the characters can manifest.

Independent Research

A psion also can research a power independently, duplicating an existing power or creating an entirely new one. If characters are allowed to develop new powers, use these guidelines to handle the situation.

Any kind of manifester can create a new power. The research involved requires access to a retreat conducive to uninterrupted meditation. Research involves an expenditure of 200 XP per week and takes one week per level of the power. At the end of that time, the character makes a Psicraft check (DC 10 + spell level). If that check succeeds, the character learns the new power if her research produced a viable power. If the check fails, the character must go through the research process again if she wants to keep trying.

According to this, it seems that psionic characters can add to their powers known in two ways. (1) Automaticly receive a certain number of powers known through class feature. (2) Independent Research.

Powers Known

A psychic warrior begins play knowing one psychic warrior power of your choice. Each time he achieves a new level, he unlocks the knowledge of a new power.
Choose the powers known from the psychic warrior power list. (Exception: The feats Expanded Knowledge and Epic Expanded Knowledge do allow a psychic warrior to learn powers from the lists of other classes.) A psychic warrior can manifest any power that has a power point cost equal to or lower than his manifester level.
The total number of powers a psychic warrior can manifest in a day is limited only by his daily power points.

A psychic warrior simply knows his powers; they are ingrained in his mind. He does not need to prepare them (in the way that some spellcasters prepare their spells), though he must get a good night’s sleep each day to regain all his spent power points.

The Difficulty Class for saving throws against psychic warrior powers is 10 + the power’s level + the psychic warrior’s Wisdom modifier.

The powers known description is functionally identical for each manifesting class. Notice that it does not put a limit on the maximum number of powers known, rather it gives the number of powers known the characters receives for free through class advancement.

It seems that any manifesting class in addition to the powers known received through class advancement, can also add to their power's known through independent reseach.

What do you think?

Thanks,
LiquidBlue

 

[milo]

I think that the independent research method is to make new powers and not have extra known.

 

[akbearfoot]

Pretty sure that's the wrong idea....If that were the case then there would be absolutely no reason why every Psion in the world wouldn't know 20 or 30 powers each at early levels...200xp/power level is cheap.

Psionics is already very powerful and very versatile, and they can already use Dorjes.

 

[Jack Simth]

The text in the SRD on research copies the text from the XPH, but for whatever reason, it stops just before the XPH gets to the section where it explicitly mentions that Independant Research doesn't break the powers known cap.

Psychic Chigury can bypass that, and Psychic Reformation can swap out powers known, but otherwise you're mostly out of luck... just like the Sorcerer.

 

[LiquidBlue]

The text in the SRD on research copies the text from the XPH, but for whatever reason, it stops just before the XPH gets to the section where it explicitly mentions that Independant Research doesn't break the powers known cap.

Psychic Chigury can bypass that, and Psychic Reformation can swap out powers known, but otherwise you're mostly out of luck... just like the Sorcerer.

So the problem is not that I misread d20srd.org; rather, that d20srd.org leaves out a paragraph or statement that is found in the XPH?

I wonder why the section on researching powers is under the "adding new powers" section?

 

[StreamOfTheSky]

Psychic Chigury can bypass that, and Psychic Reformation can swap out powers known, but otherwise you're mostly out of luck... just like the Sorcerer.

Except at least the Sorcerer in 3.5 got the option to swap out spells known every few levels.

 

[Jack Simth]

So the problem is not that I misread d20srd.org; rather, that d20srd.org leaves out a paragraph or statement that is found in the XPH?

It's not d20srd.org's fault - it's left out of the original .doc's of the SRD that WotC put out, and d20srd.org mostly just clones the text from that and reformats it to something easier to use (and adds some other OGC content, such as the Unearthed Arcana stuff).

I wonder why the section on researching powers is under the "adding new powers" section?

I can only guess.

Except at least the Sorcerer in 3.5 got the option to swap out spells known every few levels.

I'm referring to out of luck as in bypassing the Spells known or Powers Known cap (and yes, there are a couple of fairly expensive ways to get extra spells known - but Psions have similar means, so...).

 

[akbearfoot]

virtually every psychic warrior power is augmentable and scales in power level....The opposite is true with sorc/wizards. They all have specific dice caps, and the save DCs do not scale.

Several of the lower level utility powers are even useable as swift actions eventually. There is TONS of versatility in the Psi War list. You don't really need extra powers known.

 

[Jack Simth]

virtually every psychic warrior power is augmentable and scales in power level....The opposite is true with sorc/wizards. They all have specific dice caps, and the save DCs do not scale.

This is mostly correct, but it is not a complete picture.

You're missing the little aspect that while Wizard-10's Fireball is only at 10+3+Int on the DC, and only 10d6 damage, and the Psion's Energy Ball (Fire) is running at 10+5+Int on the DC, and is doing the same 10d6 damage, the Wizard's Fireball is still just costing a 3rd level spell slot (exactly what it did when the Wizard was 5th), while the Psion's is costing 10 power points (double what it did when the Psion was 5th).

This curiously means the Wizard-10 has more endurance than the Psion-10.

Several of the lower level utility powers are even useable as swift actions eventually. There is TONS of versatility in the Psi War list. You don't really need extra powers known.

Perhaps not for the Psycic Warrior - but the Psychic Warrior is more in line with the Bard on casting. For any other Psionic class? Yes you do.

 

[irdeggman]

Perhaps not for the Psycic Warrior - but the Psychic Warrior is more in line with the Bard on casting. For any other Psionic class? Yes you do.

The exact same argument can be used for most spontaneous casters (which have the same restriction on spells known).


A sorcerer and psion are pretty close in their need to know additional spells/powers, IMO.

It is part of the design trade off for being able to do spontaneous casting/manifesting.