Psionic vs Arcane: Build me some characters.

[Majere]

I would like to for a spliter thread, from the never ending psion/wizard line to see how much damage a psion can do compared to an arcanist.
The rules are very simple:
Characters have the minimum exp for 10th level and average wealth.
Generated from a 32 point buy

Each character will face the monsters, in the order posted, one after the other. No rests between monsters !

After each character post you spell casting tactics for each monster with damage, dc, caster level and expendature (as a spell slot or pps)
eg.
Emowered Fireball (15d6,R18,10th,6th)

For skills assume you roll a 10 (slightly below average result)

Im happy to do the number crunching to find average damage for spells etc.
I just need a plan of action.
The idea is to see who can kill all the monsters in the fastest time. The assumption is there is some meat shield between you and it, I just want to see how fast stuff dies.

Monsters.
10th level halfling rogue
Treant
Dread Wraith
Hezrou
Greater Fire elemental.

Majere
Wastes your time with aplomb

 

[AuraSeer]

If you're assuming a constant 10 on skill checks, what about saves and caster level checks? Given enough favorable assumptions, I can show you a wizard who kills 4 of those 5 monsters in one round each. (Scrolls are your friend when you aren't worried about the save DC.)

 

[Spatula]

My only objection to this is that 10th level is probably the best possible comparison level for the arcane casters (especially the sorcerer), as they've hit the damage caps on the old-standbys (fireball, etc.) but haven't exceeded them yet, and they are capable of Empowering those same spells.

The sorcerer will look bad when comparing odd levels (9th, 11th, whatever) because he's a spell level behind the wizard and psion.

The kineticist will look better at higher levels, when Empower can be used to greater effect.

 

[Thanee]

Yep, for a better comparison, I'd use 10th (one of the better levels for the sorcerer) and 13th (one of the better levels for the psion) level and average the results.

Then, I'd strictly disallow any expendable items (potions, scrolls, wands and such), since they totally screw the results, as has been seen in various arena-style games already, where you only need the character for a limited amount of time. Therefore I'd limit items to those that always work (including charges/day, tho) to avoid this.

And Leadership should also be disallowed, of course.

Also knowing the monsters ahead of time allows to optimize the character for minimum effort, which also favors the sorcerer, since they can only "optimize" for fewer such situations.

I'd maybe make a much larger list of suitable opponents and then roll randomly, which one to face.

Just a thought.

Bye
Thanee

 

[AuraSeer]

Then, I'd strictly disallow any expendable items (potions, scrolls, wands and such), since they totally screw the results, as has been seen in various arena-style games already, where you only need the character for a limited amount of time.

Yeah, that's a common problem with one-shot adventures. A solution I like is to charge the players 5 times the regular price for one-shot items. Charged items (wands and staffs) don't increase in price, but they only start with 10 charges.

I've seen this done at conventions a bunch of times. I also seem to recall reading it in one of the rulebooks someplace, but I'm not sure where that would have been.

 

[Majoru Oakheart]

I've seen this done at conventions a bunch of times. I also seem to recall reading it in one of the rulebooks someplace, but I'm not sure where that would have been.

HIJACK: You are thinking of the rules for the RPGA campaign Legacy of the Green Regent which use these rules. Basically, Wands only have a few charges, and it costs 5 times more for single use items, but you get them back at the beginning of each adventure.

 

[Majere]

The choice of 10th was deliberately ment to favour the arcane casters. If the sorcerer can outperform them at this level then it is safe to assume they can do it at most levels.

New rule: No expendable items.
More characters !!!
Post some people before I have to post my own !!

Majere

 

[Majere]

If you're assuming a constant 10 on skill checks, what about saves and caster level checks? Given enough favorable assumptions, I can show you a wizard who kills 4 of those 5 monsters in one round each. (Scrolls are your friend when you aren't worried about the save DC.)

No
For saves and SR and caster level check I will take the average result
Eg
10d6 fireball, average damage 35
Save dc 18, monster X have +8 save.
Average damage = 17.5+8.75 = 26.25

The reason for the ruling on skills is simple, its a convenient way of dealing with psionic focus. by 10th level such a check can be automatic anyway as can casting on the defensive and so on.

Majere

 

[Thanee]

The choice of 10th was deliberately ment to favour the arcane casters. If the sorcerer can outperform them at this level then it is safe to assume they can do it at most levels.

Erm, you surely meant, if the psion can outperform the sorcerer at this level. Otherwise it doesn't make a whole lot of sense, what you said there.

Bye
Thanee

 

[Majere]

What thanee said
I knew what I ment !!

Majere