Queer As A Three-Sided Die: Round Table From GaymerX3

At the GaymerX3 convention in December 2015, several well-known tabletop roleplaying industry members took part in a discussion called "Queer as A Three-Sided Die" which dealt with issues of queerness in the tabletop community. The participants were Tim Motishaw (D&D Adventurer's League Regional Coordinator), Joseph Carriker (Changeling: The Lost, Relics & Rituals, Stormwrack), Jeremy Crawford (lead designer, D&D 5th Edition), Steve Kenson (Mutants & Masterminds), Donna Prior (OrcaCon, Green Ronin), and Wesley Schneider (editor-in-chief, Paizo). The YouTube video is below (51 minutes), but I've also borrowed a bunch of bookmarks from Wesley Schneider's website so you can drop in at points which interest you.

[video=youtube;xCQCO5ZCONo]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xCQCO5ZCONo[/video]

​

[h=4]Bookmarks[/h]

• General Introduction (00:13)
• What is this Panel? (By Q3SD creator Steven Kenson; 1:11)
• “My Name is Joseph Carriker…” (05:00)
• “Hello Everybody, My Name’s Donna…” (07:36)
• “I’m Steve Kenson…” (11:10)
• “I’m Wesley Schneider…” (“Secret” Gamer Illuminati; 13:56)
• “I’m Jeremy Crawford…” (17:45)
• Coming Out Through Roleplaying (22:44)
• “Why Aren’t You Writing for Us?!” (24:19)
• I’m Not a Writer. How Can I Help Make Tabletop a Safe Space for Queer Content? (27:32)
• “…So Far in the Closet I Could See Narnia.” (30:46)
• Pushing Past Barriers to Participate in Tabletop (31:40)
• Dungeon Bears (33:16)
• The Experience of the Nerdy Queer (33:27)
• Donna Demonstrates Queer Tabletop Event Coordination (34:14)
• “It’s Hard Enough to Get ANYONE to Play Tabletop…” (34:36)
• Gravitas vs Safe Space (36:31)
• “There is Absolutely Nothing Wrong with Creating a Fantasy World Where Being Queer is Totally Okay.” (“Anyone Who Tells You Otherwise is Wrong”; 37:19)
• Queer Villains (39:09)
• I Love the Female Characters, But the Men… eh. (41:42)
• “Isn’t that $#%&ing Refreshing.” (41:27)
• “It is Truly an Issue.” (43:08)
• Men Get to Be Fabulous (44:42)
• Do You Find/Erase Homophobic/Misogynistic/Racist Content? (45:46)
• Moving Beyond Placeholder Characters (46:54)
• Diversity is Something We’ve Got to Always Be Considering (47:44)
• Descriptions of Male and Female Characters (49:12)
• Adventures We’re Excited For (50:54)
• Clapping (51:27)

 

[Jester David]

What Jester said. Everybody has a sexual orientation. Straight people talk about theirs all the time, usually without even realizing they are doing it, because it's perfectly normal to talk about your loved ones and family.

Besides, "I don't want to have to know somebody is gay" is basically the same as "I want to be able to assume everyone is straight". Like it or not, we divide the world into defaults and others. And if somebody isn't explicitly declared to be other, they're assumed to be default. Look at all the chaos that ensued with, for example, the black actress cast to play Hermione in the new Harry Potter play. Hermione's race is never stated, so therefore everyone assumes she's white, and clings to that assumption even when the creator says it isn't necessarily so.

Same thing with sexual orientation. If we really did agree to just not talk about it, gay people would become entirely invisible, and everyone would assume everyone was straight. Suggesting that nobody should acknowledge their sexual orientation isn't a neutral position.

Good point with the Hermione comment. Flipping it to ethnicity does instantly emphasis the assumption with a visual.
"Race doesn't matter in my campaign setting. I don't want any race in my game." Which generally means everyone is mentally pictured as white rather than colourblind.

 

[hardvice]

We keep it pretty darn tame though as far as what is covered on screen. Tame as in very little overt sexuality. Different people are comfortable with different levels of sexuality so we error on the side of caution. We also have players of different ages playing, with kids running in and out of the room or playing the role of monsters or just sitting with a D&D coloring book on the floor.

See, the thing is, literally nobody in this thread has said a single thing about wanting to incorporate sexual content. But somehow if you're GLBT, your very existence is treated as explicit.

 

[Jester David]

If you walk up to a game table expecting and looking for unfairness you will find it. Being biased isn't just a one way road. I'm not saying unpleasant things can't happen, I know they do.

I just think that for every group of unpleasant people who would harshly judge someone based on their sexuality or one of the many other reasons humans find to be jerks to each other, there are five tables that would instead offer a warm seat and good times role playing.

As far as the games go for my group, sexuality is just something we deal with only very peripherally and even then it is a in character thing. If you want your character to be gay I don't have a issue with that but the game doesn't need to be about that. The same way it doesn't need to be about the strait guy being strait.

We don't care if you are gay. It's not a issue.

What will be a issue is are you a good player? Do you make the game fun and make the game a better place. If that is the case,then no matter who you are and what you define yourself as, welcome to the party and we will very shortly be friends!

I don't know you. And odds are you're a decent guy. Someone who'd be welcome at my table and I'd be happy to play dice with.
And you'd feel accepted there, because we're all gamers.

This issue is not all groups are equally accepting. Not all groups would be happy at having a LGBTQ player. And such a player wouldn't know until they're at their house surrounded by them.
Imagine looking for a new group, playing with them, and horror of realizing everyone at the table hates you for who you are and how you were born. Or not even just hates. Feels uncomfortable. Being at a table with people who you make uncomfortable doesn't make for a great gaming experience and isn't how you relax after a long work week.
Picture being at a table with people who loved Force Awakens while you hated it (or vice versa). The references they make, the way they talk, it all just feels like a slight. But turn that up to 11, as it's not just a movie you liked but how you view yourself or people you love.
I have some people at my table with different political views than mine. Which can get tricky, but we can avoid that issue. It's possible for the most part, but still requires active thought. It's much harder when it's your identity.

We all should know this feeling of being unwelcome and outsiders, because I'm pretty sure we've all been the only gamer at work or a party. The gathering of friends of a friend. Maybe a geeky joke was made and you have to laugh and pretend not to be hurt inside. The person making the disparaging comment about D&D or video games or comic books, and you just want to scream at them but can't.


But that's not the entire issue, because the game extends beyond just play at home.

There's also public play. Game stores. Because that adds a rando element. Game stores need to actively work to be inclusive, and present themselves as a safe space.

And there's representation in gaming publications. Which is a factor since two of the people involved in the panel work for major publishers. There can be some acknowledgement of ethnicity, sexuality, gender, and the like in the products. Seeing a character that is like you can be huge for groups and communities that have limited representation and role models. WotC has been better at including People of Colour in their art and products, but in the four adventures they've released for 5th Edition, how many transgender or homosexual or gender fluid characters have there been?

In the end it's not just about making LGBTQ not an issue, but making everyone feel welcome in the hobby. Because gaming is awesome and we want everyone to game.

 

[Morrus]

I think that There's a danger of certain phrases used in response to somebody telling you about their experiences of being marginalised sounding like - in so many words - "I didn't see it so it didn't happen". And even worse to combine that with "Therefore I demand it not be discussed anywhere". That, sadly, is the message being sent, even if it's not intended.

If one's own table is free from such behaviour; congratulations. You're a lucky person. Rejoice in your good fortune. That's not a reason to ban folks from talking about their own experiences. One game table is not the whole world.

The idea that such things are rare is ludicrous in the face of enormously widespread very public issues going on in the world.

 

[hardvice]

See often I am told by complete strangers that something is wrong with me. I must be at least a little bit racist or sexist or homophobic because of who i am.

Nobody is saying that. Not even a little. But at the end of the day, you don't experience being gay, in life or in RPGs. So when you tell us how it "really" is for us, it comes across a bit condescending. We're speaking about our experiences. You're speaking about how you don't see the things we experience. Well, you wouldn't, would you? That doesn't make you a homophobe. It makes you a straight person.

I'm not even saying there are not some crappy people out there.

Crappy people aren't the point of this panel, or this discussion -- in fact, except in passing, the panel barely mentions homophobia. There's a whole wide world between overt homophobia and making people feel comfortable in the hobby. And there are a lot of issues with regards to LGBTQ people and gaming that have nothing to do with inclusiveness at the table.

The comment you replied to attempted to give you perspective from my point of view about why I care about my sexual orientation (and my character's) at the game table, because it's probably not something you as a straight gamer have ever really had to think about. If I'm a GM, that's valuable information to have: what do my players hope to get out of this? Our culture is almost entirely made up of stories where straight people get to be the hero, so that's just not a need you would have any reason to experience, and therefore something you're unlikely to spend much time thinking about. But for a gay gamer, it might be an important part of the experience. You know how you find out if that's the case? By talking about it.

And it's considered completely normal for straight people to talk about their families and their loved ones, so you've probably never had to think about whether anybody at the table will object to it. That affects my ability to be comfortable at the table, and thus my ability to roleplay my character, and thus my enjoyment of the game (and probably other people's as well -- because then I'm not contributing to the game as much as I should.) A table where nobody talks about such things may seem harmonious on the surface, but chances are someone at the table isn't feeling as welcome -- and as a result, isn't as open and invested -- as they should.

There's a way to deal with that, of course: talking about it. The extent of that conversation is probably this: "my name's Ugbash. I'm a barbarian from the Whispering Plains. My husband was the chief of our village, and I'm traveling seeking vengeance against the orcs that murdered him." "Hi, Ugbash."

For a gay gamer, things are different. And it's OK to acknowledge and talk about those differences.

Nobody is pointing fingers or assigning blame. But we can't really just pretend these differences don't exist.

 

[Morrus]

Of course the conversation will never take place until we get past the point where even mentioning it turns into 4 pages of people being forced to justify why they should even be allowed to talk about it lest someone's day be mildly interrupted by being force-fed political correctness. Perhaps if folks didn't object to the very concept of the conversation, it would have been had by now and it would all be history.

 

[ShinHakkaider]

Look all I wanted to do with these posts was to say next time you guys saddle up to a rpg table realize that most gamers do not care what your race or sexuality is, we don't care how old you are or what political party you are. We just want to sit down and have fun and role play taking down the bad guys and claiming our share of the loot!

I'm not even saying there are not some crappy people out there. There are. What I am saying is that those people are few and far between(though they always seem loud) and while we will never get rid of all of them they are few and we are many.

It's not the other way around.

If the RPG community is a microcosm of the population in general what youre saying simply is not true.
The RPG community is just as racist, sexist, homophobic as the general population is. In some cases even MORE because of how niche and insular it is. This hobby being overwhelmingly white and male for a very long time can be problematic for those of us who ARENT.

My gaming group of the last five years comprises of two black males (myself and another) one white female and two white males. I dont game with them because of oreintation and or race. I still game with them because theyre GOOD PEOPLE. But the problem is that in my experience? Getting a group like this is FEW and FAR BETWEEN. I've experienced seen the poor behavior from gamers for decades. Ranging from the inability to actually show up for games, to homophobic/sexist/racist comments during play to just outright sociopathic behavior.

Gamers are NOT good/decent people because theyre gamers. They're PEOPLE. Just like everyone else.

 

[GameOgre]

If the RPG community is a microcosm of the population in general what youre saying simply is not true.
The RPG community is just as racist, sexist, homophobic as the general population is. In some cases even MORE because of how niche and insular it is. This hobby being overwhelmingly white and male for a very long time can be problematic for those of us who ARENT.

My gaming group of the last five years comprises of two black males (myself and another) one white female and two white males. I dont game with them because of oreintation and or race. I still game with them because theyre GOOD PEOPLE. But the problem is that in my experience? Getting a group like this is FEW and FAR BETWEEN. I've experienced seen the poor behavior from gamers for decades. Ranging from the inability to actually show up for games, to homophobic/sexist/racist comments during play to just outright sociopathic behavior.

Gamers are NOT good/decent people because theyre gamers. They're PEOPLE. Just like everyone else.

I agree with this statement 100%.

I just think the vast majority of people are good and decent people. Once again it's the ones who are not that always seem the loudest and the ones everyone(media) focus on.

Also the world is a very HUGE place and now we are all connected like never before.

If .05% of people are evil bastards that is thousands of people all over the place doing all kinda of crazy crud to each other and everyone else. You hear a story about a cop gunning someone down unnecessarily in one state, A Gay person being treated horribly in that state, a Church burned down over there and a mother who kills her kids over here.

The whole planet seems to be going strait to hell in a hand basket and everyone is running around crazy but that is only because everyone is focused on that all important .05% that is screaming the loudest.

The other 99.99(and a half)% are more or less good and decent people just like you watching the same thing and feeling alone.

Those people are the few, we are the many! We just have a bad habit of standing alone and they have the bad habit of attracting more people just like them!

I have been all over the world. I spent 20 years going from one hell hole to the next one troubled spot to another and it was always the same thing.

Most people are good and decent people no matter where they live but that small minority that are not, are loud and not afraid to impact the lives of a great many good and decent people.

 

[Morrus]

I agree with this statement 100%.

I just think the vast majority of people are good and decent people. Once again it's the ones who are not that always seem the loudest and the ones everyone(media) focus on.

Also the world is a very HUGE place and now we are all connected like never before.

If .05% of people are evil bastards that is thousands of people all over the place doing all kinda of crazy crud to each other and everyone else. You hear a story about a cop gunning someone down unnecessarily in one state, A Gay person being treated horribly in that state, a Church burned down over there and a mother who kills her kids over here.

The whole planet seems to be going strait to hell in a hand basket and everyone is running around crazy but that is only because everyone is focused on that all important .05% that is screaming the loudest.

The other 99.99(and a half)% are more or less good and decent people just like you watching the same thing and feeling alone.

Those people are the few, we are the many! We just have a bad habit of standing alone and they have the bad habit of attracting more people just like them!

I have been all over the world. I spent 20 years going from one hell hole to the next one troubled spot to another and it was always the same thing.

Most people are good and decent people no matter where they live but that small minority that are not, are loud and not afraid to impact the lives of a great many good and decent people.

I think you're confused about the subject matter here. It's not about the evil maniacal homophobes who plot Machiavellian war against folks not exactly like them in every detail.

It's about the good and decent people who maybe don't quite see the impact of things they see as trivial because they do not experience them personally. Folks who would be happy to think a little more about their fellow gamers, and be glad to know about little things which would make their fellow gamers feel more welcome. That's not the same as deliberately making someone unwelcome.

The 'evil' people you talk about? Nah, this panel isn't going to affect them. It's not trying to. They're evil: no hope for them.

 

[JonnyP71]

Interesting discussion. It's good that the world is opening up and slowly coming round to a state where people (and their characters) are accepted no matter who they are.

My own experience:

My 1st regular gaming group had 1 player who was very flamboyant and effeminate, this was the 1980s, 'gay' was a dirty word, but we all knew, and we didn't care - we were a group of gaming geeks there to enjoy a game together, and he was a great player. Though he never played a gay character - he channelled his personality into female PCs more often than not.

Move forward 30 years, and I'm happy to say with certainty that my current groups would all see it as a non-issue. Yes, we are all in heterosexual relationships (most of us are married), but our characters quite frequently are not. Though this varies from campaign to campaign. Most of the PCs are also heterosexual, but there have been exceptions. I had a very enjoyable session playing a gay Call of Cthulhu character, and my main campaign character is desperately awkward around anything sexual (I think of him as asexual).

I feel if anything, that gaming groups are MORE accepting of people who society perceive as being 'different' - be that due to sexuality, race, disability, whatever. Maybe it's because the older gamers amongst us lived through the stigma of being nerds at a time when that was looked down upon? Maybe it's because RPGs appeal to a generally intelligent, well educated subset of society, who don't tend to have the levels of bigotry more common among other parts of society?

Anyway, back to the video - it was interesting hearing people's experiences. Thanks for posting it.