question about spell immunity

[Hypersmurf]

See, where this differs from a druid or cleric flamestrike is the fact that once you have, say, a heightened magic missile that is 5th level, there IS no lower level version of it anywhere. It has become a different, although very similar, spell. Heighten spell even mentions that it is different from other metamagic feats in this regard; a Heightened Magic Missile IS NO LONGER Magic Missile, the first level spell. It is a fifth level spell that behaves as magic missile. It does not exist as a fourth, third, second, or first level spell; it is Magic Missile Heightened To Fifth Level.

Why Heighten it to 5th, then? Under that reading, Heightening it to 2nd would beat Spell Immunity: Magic Missile...

-Hyp.

 

[Ogrork the Mighty]

I'd allow spell immunity to work against any spell of the specified name. Otherwise you're opening a pandora's box of workarounds to make spell immunity worthless.

 

[Lord Pendragon]

I'd allow spell immunity to work against any spell of the specified name. Otherwise you're opening a pandora's box of workarounds to make spell immunity worthless.

That's a broad statement to throw out there with no support whatsoever. :\ The only "workaround" I can think of is Heighten Spell, a feat whose purpose is partially to trump spells exactly like Spell Immunity.

 

[Ogrork the Mighty]

The only "workaround" I can think of is Heighten Spell, a feat whose purpose is partially to trump spells exactly like Spell Immunity.

And that's one workaround too many.

 

[Shariell]

Why Heighten it to 5th, then? Under that reading, Heightening it to 2nd would beat Spell Immunity: Magic Missile...

-Hyp.

Bingo! That's one of the major problems with the mechanics of the spell if we go with the spell+level as a discriminant.
That's why I see the Thanee point make more sense in a straight line of playability of the game.

 

[Hypersmurf]

Bingo! That's one of the major problems with the mechanics of the spell if we go with the spell+level as a discriminant.

I don't see a problem with saying "You're immune to Magic Missile - any Magic Missile, as long as it's a spell that's 4th level or lower".

Which makes you immune to Magic Missile, Magic Missile Heightened to 2nd, 3rd, or 4th, Empowered Maximized Quickened Repeating Twinned Silent Still Enlarged Magic Missile, but not Magic Missile Heightened to 5th.

That reading doesn't bother me in the slightest.

It bothers me far less, in fact, than having Spell Immunity fail against Cone of Cold for the first three years of a campaign, then suddenly start working because someone somewhere published a sourcebook with a Chilly Domain that has Cone of Cold as a 4th level spell.

-Hyp.

 

[Ovinomancer]

It bothers me far less, in fact, than having Spell Immunity fail against Cone of Cold for the first three years of a campaign, then suddenly start working because someone somewhere published a sourcebook with a Chilly Domain that has Cone of Cold as a 4th level spell.

-Hyp.

Amen!

 

[isoChron]

Bingo! That's one of the major problems with the mechanics of the spell if we go with the spell+level as a discriminant.
That's why I see the Thanee point make more sense in a straight line of playability of the game.

Never mess spell level with spell slot !

ONLY heighthen changes the LEVEL of a spell. All other metamagic feats keep the spell at the original level. (See my SRD quote above).

If two spells have the same name they are the same spells regardless at which level they are. Charm Person has the same effect in level 1 as heightened to level 5. Only difference is how you can overcome boundaries dependend on the power (level) of the spell. Otherwise they would have named "flame strike" for druid's perhaps "wildfire" instead of "flame strike" to separate it from the cleric's flame strike

 

[Shariell]

Never mess spell level with spell slot !

ONLY heighthen changes the LEVEL of a spell. All other metamagic feats keep the spell at the original level. (See my SRD quote above).

If two spells have the same name they are the same spells regardless at which level they are. Charm Person has the same effect in level 1 as heightened to level 5. Only difference is how you can overcome boundaries dependend on the power (level) of the spell. Otherwise they would have named "flame strike" for druid's perhaps "wildfire" instead of "flame strike" to separate it from the cleric's flame strike

Yes I know
What I can try to say, is in regard of the question "is a spell of the same name but a different level the same spell?".
To me, if we rule that isn't the same spell, a 2nd level heightened charme is on pair with the spell in another list, another spell.
Thus, strictly by the wording of spell immunity, a DM can rule the protection is bypassed as well.

 

[Shariell]

To clarify my point...I DON'T think a heightened spell is a DIFFERENT spell, so in this case, we share the same point of view