Question on Immortal Resilience (Gods making saving throws)

[pippenainteasy]

Immortal Resilience

At-Will
Trigger: Lolth is subjected to an effect that a save can end.
Effect (No Action): Lolth makes a saving throw against the effect.


Supposedly you can make any number of "No Actions" per round, correct? Does that mean Lolth can just keep rolling ad infinitum in response to any effect until she saves?

 

[corwyn77]

Well, since the trigger is actually being subjected to the effect, I would say one free save per effect; when actually hit/affected/etc.

 

[Nichwee]

Yeah, I am pretty sure Corwyn77 is right. You are only subjected to the effect once (when it first occurs).
After that you are subject to the effect (and its consequences), but not subjectted to it.

Though, is there a rule that says you can't respond to the same trigger multiple times with the same power* (assuming the power is usable again)?
Part of this would be whether the No Action is a reaction or an interrupt. If it is a reaction then by the time you have used it once the trigger is over. If it is an interrupt then the trigger is still valid when the power ends, so could be used again.

* I seem to recall a cheese build where a Seeker would intensionally miss with attacks to use Inevitable Shot (regaining it somehow in the porcess) and make infinate shots but I think this still responded to each miss seperately, and not to the same miss multiple times.

If you could regain Staff of Defense as a free/no action could you respond to an attack with SoD twice to get 2xConMod to your defense?

 

[Nichwee]

As an aside to the main issue of this thread (but mentioned here as this power inspired the question):

Is Dieing "an effect a save can end"?
A Death Saving Throw can allow someone to spend a surge, thus ending the Dieing condition.
In the case of monsters it is moot, as they go from healthy to Dead with no Dieing state, but I find myself wondering if Dieing could be used as a trigger of a similarly worded power to try to revive the dieing PC?

I suppose not, as the saving throw don't end the condition. It allows you to perform a process* which then ends the condition but this may or may not count as the same thing.

*Spending a healing surge, if you have one left.

 

[pippenainteasy]

You only get 1 immediate action a round, so reaction or interrupt, it wouldn't make a difference.

 

[Nichwee]

You only get 1 immediate action a round, so reaction or interrupt, it wouldn't make a difference.

True on Staff Of Defence (I forgot it was an II for a sec), but what if you had a free action/no action eqiuvalent? (That was more the issue I was wondering about)

Can the same power respond to a single trigger twice?
If so, then Lolth may well be able to keep saving until she passes, as nothing says the trigger has passed by the time the power has finished a previous attempt.

RAI is almost certainly "One attempt per effect" but I am not certain RAW actually limits her to that.

 

[pippenainteasy]

My reasoning is, back in Draconomicon I (I guess the MM1? maybe MM2 days) Tiamat's stat block says she gets a saving throw against all effects, even the ones that don't get a save, and gets an immediate save, plus one after each of her 5 turns.

So Tiamat gets to make 6 saving throws per round, PER unique effect, whether it has a save or not, and is immune to attacks below level 20.

Well it seems since MM3 our divine friends have not been so lucky. Now they no longer are immune to attacks below level 20, and don't make a save against ANY effect, but ONLY those that are (save ends).

So I "figured", as a consolation prize, that whenever a unique (save ends) effect is placed on Lolth, she gets to roll a save...and keep rolling until she saves because it is listed as a (no action). Seems fair vs 6 saves against all effects even those without a save, right?...

 

[(Psi)SeveredHead]

Draconomicon and MM 3 came out before Monster Vault and it's amazing Action Recovery/Instinctive Attack traits for dragons. I would recommend using those, as they're more balanced. Note that Action Recovery can (and should) be modified to reflect how different Lolth is from a dragon.

 

[Dr_Ruminahui]

So I "figured", as a consolation prize, that whenever a unique (save ends) effect is placed on Lolth, she gets to roll a save...and keep rolling until she saves because it is listed as a (no action). Seems fair vs 6 saves against all effects even those without a save, right?...

If that's what they intended, they would have said either "passes all saves" or "ends all effects" - as that's in essence what happens if you can keep rolling until you pass.