Razor Coast Kickstarter is live

[Dice4Hire]

Two systems I do not play so giving this one a pass.

If they are doing two systems would it be so hard to do another?

 

[mach1.9pants]

Mmm well FGG are pretty much PF and S+W only, they'd have to hire someone else to convert I guess

Lou has pout in his words about the price, as there is a lot of discussion about the cost on Paizo and even on the KS comments

Hey all,

I’ve been listening to the debate about price, and I thought I’d toss my 2 cents in. For certain, you should discount my 2 cents to 1 cent, because I’ve clearly got an interest in seeing this project fund.

So please, pocket one of those pennies with a grain of salt and mix in a few other metaphors while you’re at it. But here is how I got to thinking when Frog God told me how they’d need to price Razor Coast.

Fair warning: Big Azz Post Ahead. Sorry. Lot of thoughts. On the other hand, this shares a lot of how Razor Coast is designed and what it is and isn’t. So maybe that’s worth trudging through this [pxxt]. Edit: essay.

When FGG told me about the pricing, I tried to make apples and apples in my head by comparing game play. Razor Coast is really a slightly abbreviated Adventure Path plus sandbox, setting-lite combined into one. For the exercise on which I’m about to embark, lets start with Paizo's Skull and Shackles, but imagine it has enough Golarion to ground a setting-newbie.

So, walk with me here: Skull and Shackles gets you from 1st to 13th. Four of those volumes take you from 4th to 11th. By comparison, Razor Coast goes from 5th to 12th. It covers about the same level progression as four volumes.

For certain, four volumes of the Skull and Shackles AP includes more pages than Razor Coast. No doubt. No argument, but there are a couple of reasons for that. The first is: Paizo is Paizo. They write BIG! So, lets give credit where credit is due.

That said, they include ecology and other material. Razor Coast uses part of one chapter and an appendix to deliver straight setting exposition. The rest of the setting is dolloped in with sidebars throughout the book and built into the backstories of nearly every NPC. The design goal was to establish enough setting for GMs to riff like mad. In other words, we built a jazz band instead of a symphony orchestra.

Riff this into your home campaign. Snap it into Golarion. Put it anywhere. Yes, I know most of us do that with the material we buy. But as designers, we were thinking about you doing that while we wrote and revised Razor Coast.

If we did our game designer job, Razor Coast should be easier to adapt. A lot easier. It’s a tough balance to strike – set enough in stone to be clear and valuable, hold back at just the right moments to give the GM room to contribute in a significant way. It’s like trying to collaborate with someone not in the room, but it also means we don’t have to write as much straight setting material. More adventure.

And a different sort of Adventure beast, too. Let’s talk about that. Paizo is the master of story. No doubt. Since Kingmaker it seems they’ve also been introducing greater and greater non-linearity. I’m a fan! At what they do, Paizo is king.

Razor Coast is close, but it isn’t quite the same beast as an adventure path, so it’s a little harder to compare. It’s got everything you need to play it exactly like an adventure path, just from 5th to 12th. On top of that, all the stretch goal material will plug right in as if it had been in the main book from the start. I think that’s pretty cool.

However, Razor Coast is also a toolkit. It’s got sections that say, “put stuff in here” but also say, “stuff like this, or this, and think about re-purposing this, that way…” Or, “Plug those supplemental stretch goal adventures in here.”

More significantly, it’s organized into interconnected encounters. Shuffle them this way and get one story. Shuffle them another way and get a different story. Approach that set of encounters when you share the aims and values of the newcomer’s fighting for the frontier, and the encounters play out one way. Come at them looking to defend the indigenous people from the depredations of the uncaring? The same encounters play out differently -- and lead to different follow-on encounters. Come at the same situations as uncaring mercenaries out for yourselves? It plays out differently again.

In short, we just designed Razor Coast designed to deliver more adventure with less pages.

Assuming we did our jobs right and it works – ultimately only you can judge that – I have to confess: boy would it suck to get penalized for succeeding at packing more playability into fewer pages! Irony. Look it up in the dictionary, it says “see irony.”

I hope what I wrote just now actually explains more than it confuses. I’m always happy to answer questions, but here is one example that may clarify. After that I want to compare those numbers.

Here’s something from Chapter 2 – Build an Adventure Path: the bulk of Chapter 2 is divided by level. When you go to the section that matches the level of your party, one of the things you find is a list of adventure opportunities.

My PCs are 7th level. It says here they can (changed to avoid spoilers)…

Take down a vicious, drug dealer who is halfway to being the next mayor
Rescue a child from the clutches of the boogey man
Stop the nefarious Sebastian from transforming this into a My Little Pony campaign
and more and more and more…
And under each adventure option? The list of encounters, hooks, rumors, and everything else the GM needs to know to understand how that adventure opportunity starts, runs, and fits into the main plot arcs in the book. And how all the adventure opportunities relate and connect to each other. And how they play into the major NPCs of the campaign.

In short, GMs sit down to prep and get to think, “What can my player’s do right now that might interest them?” then assemble the answer from encounters found in different parts of the book. Or just say, "Heck – my players want to go right for one of the (somewhat) more linear main plot arcs. Let’s just do that." And the GM don't have to plan past that or prep more than that -- but they can if they want. All the complexity is baked in. You can trust the adventure to take you from there, just by choosing the kind of adventure you like.

The design goal was short prep time for GMs without sacrificing depth, complexity or player-driven adventuring. So, if we did our design jobs right...

Again, I hope I’m explaining and not confusing. But Razor Coast is a slightly different beastie than a straight AP, and the only way I can think to explain is it packs more arrangements of adventure into fewer pages because of it.

Ok, numbers. I said I’d talk about numbers.

1. For game play I see Razor Coast as equivalent to 4 volumes of something like the Skull and Shackles AP. They both get you from about 5th – 12th level (4th to 11th, same diff, right?). Paizo charges $79.96 for that, plus shipping.

Taste’s Great: But it’s hardcover, its worth more!
Less Filling: But its fewer pages!
Taste’s Great: But FGG pays American printers who sew every 16 pages into packets and then sew the packets together with the hardback cover to create a textbook quality finished product that will last for years. USA! USA!
Less Filling:: But there’s a subscriber discount.
Taste’s Great: But 12th is more XP than 11th...

Call it even? Everyone will have to decide how all that balances out for themselves, obviously.

2. The Player’s Guide is 64pp. That’s about 2 player companions. Paizo charges $21.98

3. Paizo sells their PDFs at about 69.98% of a print book. For our imaginary 4 volumes AP that’s $55.96 for the main book and $15.98 for the player companions.

4. Check my math, but that totals $173.88 for what I believe is comparable game play, set against FGG’s $140 (the $110 deckhand level plus the $30 Player’s Guide).

I could be wrong thinking this way. I really mean that. Frankly, I’ve been so far up Razor Coast’s stern for so long it’s hard to be unbiased. Heck, it’s hard to be unbiased about anything you’ve had a hand in writing, editing, developing, art directing, proofing...

5. Oh wait. What about the character sheets? You get those when you back the FGG kickstarter. How much are they worth?

6. Then there’s the sandbox design and replayability, I shared. That means different things to different people. What price do we put on something like that? I’m not even sure how to figure it. But the book will physically last through multiple plays, I can guarantee that much.

7. Getting Nick’s work out there again. I don’t know how to price that.

8. Or fixing the whole stupid, painful, horrible Razor Coast debacle by making sure the community of pre-order folk can do absolutely nothing more than the amazing, amazing thing they’ve already done: offer support and keep the faith. And they get back a 250+ page book for their 30-odd 2008 dollars. Man, I want to see that. I want the closure of knowing people Got. Their. Books. And now we're into American Express credit card territory, because for me? That's priceless. It’s what I’m here for.

9. And last but not least – have to walk carefully here so I don’t get Frog whupped again – there is a lot of excellent value coming in the stretch and bonus goals. Uh oh. Something dark and squamous shadowed my window. Better stop talking about that now.

10. Ahg, I almost forgot. FGG's $140 includes free shipping for Razor Coast and the Player’s Guide in the US, and they apply that amount to international shipping. So add about $8 to the Paizo side of costs, I figure?

Anyway, for what its worth, that’s how I saw the value equation.

Hope that helped.

PS Frog whupped involves a monstrous slimy tongue. Not fun.

 

[mach1.9pants]

And more sweetness added to the pot: http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/froggodgames/razor-coast/posts/

Basically Frank Menzter (of BECMI fame) will write an adventure to go in the book, also the original Sinister Adventures' indulgences will be added too. By authors such as Wolfgang Bauer (Kobold Press), Richard Pett and Nic Logue. "We're adding this material to the Razor Coast Mega-Campaign volume to help take it to an estimated 350 pages for Pathfinder and 280 for Swords & Wizardry."
A big jump up in page count in a colour book!

The First bonus goal, at 80k, is a book with four adventures (by Richard Pett, Owen K Stephens, Gary McBride and Tom Knauss) which will be added free in PDF at $150 pledges, print at 250.

Also in the future is PFRPG and S+W ship-to-ship rules, to use those lovely pirate ship minis. And Upgrading the Player's Guide to hard cover. There is d20Pro and herolab files too, like in RA.

It is a pity this wasn't what was originally put out but hopefully people will come back for a second look!

Avast!

 

[Jeff Erwin]

The first lines of the KS are: "The long awaited sizzling pirate adventure in [notranslate]Pathfinder[/notranslate] and Swords & Wizardry."
So it is an adventure but yeah doesn't spell t out very well! On the 2nd preview it says "Razor Coast is a 250+ page mega-adventure by Nicolas Logue for 5th to 12th level characters. Using an exciting and entirely non-linear plot web format Razor Coast allows you and your players to brave wild adventures in any way you see fit. Set sail for peril. There will be blood by the bucket-full boyos." As a sandboxy/open adventure it also contains a lot of details on the region.

It's a mixture. The sandbox/campaign is integrated into the adventure(s). Hence, it puts setting info into sidebars and the like. There are adventures in the mix as goals or higher level benefits that are independent, but set in the same region.
It's also going to be a part of the Frog God campaign world.

 

[mach1.9pants]

Since the page count has gone up to more like 350 and the first stretch goal of a bunch of indulgence based adventures the kickstarter has started rumbling up again thankfully. I just so hope it makes it with less than 3 weeks to go, a full colour sandbox AP with extras by respected authors all done to the 'made-in-the-USA' text book quality of FGG is something to savour. Hopefully the d20Pro and herolab files will make it too!

 

[mach1.9pants]

The great Clark Peterson, creator of Necromancer games has chimed in too.

You know what...

Let me just say something here.

I started Necromancer and quickly got Bill involved and that was such an amazing team. We had such a blast with Necro. Things progressed in my life such that I couldnt really focus on Necro anymore and I am so proud to let Bill run with it.

What I want to say is this: Projects like this, finding a way to bring RC to life, is exactly what third party publishers should be all about. This is totally who Bill Webb is--a super-great guy who I am proud to call a dear friend.

Bill, I love that you and the FGG team could make this happen.

This right here is the true spirit of what open gaming is supposed to be all about. Then you add the amazing community here at Paizo and the various boards and you add in the brilliance of kickstarter and you have exactly this project.

This is just 100% pure gamer awesomeness. I am so proud of you guys that you got this going forward.

I've been proud of a lot of things I was able to accomplish with Bill--bringing back Gygax's Necropolis, Kuntz' Maze series, Judges Guild and the CSIO and Wilderlands, Grimtooth. We were able to do so many great things that I was so proud of. But this is really an amazing achievement.

To Bill and the team at FGG and everyone involved in this, you guys were my friends before but my hat is off to all of you. Incredible.

I hope everyone really gets behind this. This is truly, truly an industry "moment." This is the stuff people remember years and years from now. This is the stuff people will talk about, the stuff of legend. Bill and I have had those moments before with Necro, and this is one for the most recent era of open gaming.

Amazing. I am speechless. And, for those who know me, that never happens.

Bravo!

From here at Paizo Forums (this goes directly to the post on. There is some interesting input from other team members too after that post, like an outside proof reader, check out the thread. There is also a dedicated sneak peeks thread, so you don't have to wade through 15 pages

Also a G+ interview of Lou Agresta on Demiplane of Gaming, by Owen K.C. Stephens (WotC, Paizo, WoT, Black Company etc) and Steven D. Russell (Rite Publishing) which is interesting and quite funny, I am disappointed that Lou wasn't wearing the legendary orange tux tho!

There is a big announcement at 75% funded, hopefully of more loot me hearties! James Jacobs has pledged so why don't you!
James Jacobs on the ask JJ thread when asked about kickstarters

I do indeed browse them now and again, but I've not kicked in on many of them; I did for Monte's game, and just threw in some money for Razor Coast though...

Facebook linky too, for sneak peeks and teasers

 

[mach1.9pants]

Well the supporters have been challenged by Blonde Frog to introduce another backer, so if any one sees this thread and pledges, please let me know

 

[froggodgames]

Sneak Peek and Recent Update

There is a big announcement at 75% funded, hopefully of more loot me hearties!

We went early at 70% funding because we are just too excited. Here is the most recent update:
[h=1]First Inside Look at Razor Coast[/h]

On the Kickstarter page under updates is a snapshot of the pages in the Razor Coast book. We have currently started the layout process. We've included a download of a few more pages in a short PDF for you to check out at the bottom of the post on the update page. We will be revealing 2 more of these "Inside Looks" for Backers Only in the days to come, so now is the time to jump on board!

[h=1]A PDF Treasure Trove[/h]We are making some headway on this project but we still need the support of our fans, fellow gamers, and crowd-funders alike to make it past that final push. Several of the 3rd Party Publishers have offered their support -- and their products! -- to get this funded. The gaming community truly is a fantastic group of people. We are super excited to announce we are adding the following PDFs for all backers at multiple pledge levels (we will add them to the respective S&W pledges too, even though all the PDFs will be in the pathfinder version):

Add to Pledges $110 and Above

Advanced Options: Fight Like A Pirate
by Super Genius Games

and

The Malefactor
by Total Party Kill Games


Add to Pledges $150 and Above

Super Genius Presents: A Brace of Pistols
from Super Genius Games

and

101 Pirate and Privateer Traits
from Rite Publishing

AND

Grave Undertakings: The Ship of Fools
from Total Party Kill Games

AND!

Buccaneers of Freeport
from Green Ronin


[h=1]PDF of Razor Coast layout first look[/h]Don't forget to ask your gamers, friends, neighbors, local game store to take a look at pledging for this project!

 

[froggodgames]

Here are some sneak peeks as well

[h=3]Razor Coast Sneak Peek #1[/h]From Nick Logue

The first chapter details the campaigns' main villains and their dread agendas (most of which involve awful things for the people living within hundreds of leagues of them) and also gives detailed info on the three major potential story arcs for each. Later chapters include “Inciting Incidents" and basically supplies the GM with a bunch of tiny teaser encounters that draw the party into the main plot arcs or subplots connecting to them. There is no linear plot. The PCs have a bunch of encounters in their face, and they can get involved with the adventures behind them in ANY way they want. The adventure part of this builds to a climax, but the PCs actions could completely avert it, or make it even worse for everyone. It's all about hard choices and conflicts you need more than just a sturdy sword or fiery spell to overcome. Though those will definitely help when you are staring down the bastard spawn of demon and kraken. ;-)
[h=3]Razor Coast Sneak Peek #2[/h]

Images on Tsathogga's Blog
​

The Razor Coast by Nicolas Logue

A sea of blood caresses the savage shore of the Razor. Port Shaw is beset by land and sea. Rising from the abyssal depths, Harthagoa, the bastard spawn of kraken and demon, drags whole fleets beneath the waves. In the fetid Blacksink Marsh, where unspeakable horrors are sunk beneath the bog water, accursed cannibals pay gory obeisance to an ancient shark god of slaughter.

A ghostly armada, murderous pirates, and bale-sharks prowl the seas. Meanwhile foreign invaders in search of baleen, ambergris, and gold menace the native Tulita tribes, driving them from their ancestral home with smoke-belching cannonade.

Pele, The Goddess of Fire and Wrack, watches all from her smoldering throne on Dreadsmoke mountain. She stands ever ready to purge the people of Port Shaw from her domain in a torrent of ash and molten lava. You decide the fate of the Razor Coast - A Dark Vista in dire need of heroes.

Razor Coast is a 250+ page mega-adventure by Nicolas Logue for 5th to 12th level characters. Using an exciting and entirely non-linear plot web format Razor Coast allows you and your players to brave wild adventures in any way you see fit. Set sail for peril. There will be blood by the bucket-full boyos.

[h=3]Razor Coast Sneak Peek #3[/h]Images on Tsathogga's Blog


The Razor Coast has drawn men to madness and slaughter since the world was young. Tulita natives, born from the same fire as this jagged coast, claim the Razor existed long before the world’s other lands. It is a crucible of flame cooled by the ocean’s caress and its mountains, reefs and lightless depths teem with as many terrors as they do lustrous spoils. The Razor bucks the trappings of civilization in much the same manner the storm-tossed sea spurns the men who dare mount her. This is no place for the weak-willed. Untested souls are food for its storms, its fickle gods, its ancient spirits and the evil predations of unfathomable creatures. No less dangerous are the men who make the coast their home and whose dark desires put most horrors to shame.


Every year another colony of hopeful settlers springs up, only to be silenced by the unforgiving landscape or butchered by fearsome tribes of monsters lurking just beyond the tree line. Yet still the colonists come in their hundreds, lured to the coast’s riches: its kava, its jocas fruit and koa wood, to name but a few. All treasures worth twice their weight in gold and all ripe for the picking along the Razor. Mossy placards emblazoned with the bold names of these colonies’ founders are the only testament left to their brief, prideful existence. The last chapter of their story is now told in dust and ash.


Port Shaw is the only survivor. The town clings to the coast like the sea’s most stubborn barnacle, impossible to scrape from the Razor’s edge. At times it limps along, vexed by demons, angry gods, cannibal tribes, dread pirate armadas, and worse; but at present the city thrives as foreign vessels flock to its harbor, their holds hungry for whale oil and other treasures.


Port Shaw menaces and delights in equal extremes. Treasures and pleasures abound in this whaling boomtown, but evil and abandon take almost every soul who comes her way. This playground of pirates is ruled by the crushing fist of the Municipal Dragoons and filled with both the ancient curses of the coast’s Tulita natives and dark secrets of its own. It is an easy place to die, and a town where countless legends are born.


- From the Journals of Reiker Glassgrinder, naturalist and historian

[h=3]Razor Coast Sneak Peek #4[/h]Images on Tsathogga's Blog

Rule the Razor you say? A fool’s ambition. The subtleties and perils of this realm are manifold. Land and sea murder at the whim of ancient gods. Men’s smiles hide a thousand knives. Those fooled into believing that the Kraken’s tentacles are more fearsome than its insidious and far-reaching schemes soon find themselves cruelly enlightened – usually moments before calamity claims their souls. The Razor is too vast, its terrors too multitudinous, for even the bravest adventurer to conquer. It won’t stop them from trying though, and that means good business for me. I thank the gods daily for sending so many fools into this world.
- Saldrin Seaheart, local guide and purveyor of “adventuring supplies”



[h=3]Razor Coast Sneak Peek #5[/h]Images on Tsathogga's Blog

B-10. The Kiss of Dajobas
(CR varies)
In this chamber, Dalang Jalamar administers his deity’s razor-kissed blessing to captives taken by his Razortooth Raiders.

A ledge along the west wall of this chamber juts like a platform eastward to the center of the water and stands just above the waterline. Rusted iron cages hang from the ceiling by chains. The water slaps the stone, black as midnight, and renders the depth of the pool indeterminate.

Jalamar’s minions bring unfortunates chosen for membership here and force them off the platform into the water below. Jalamar then enters [SPOILER REDACTED] deep below the water line. He violently mauls the victims, leaving them barely alive and infected with Dajobas’ lycanthropic blessing.

Several pirates in leather and two hideous, lumbering shark-men with white pupil-less eyes gather around a terrified young fisherman. Half-starved and clad only in tattered garments, he struggles weakly as the shark-men grab him roughly under the arms and hurl him unceremoniously into the water below. The boy thrashes wildly, desperate screams ringing hollow off the pitiless stone walls.

 

[Ratinyourwalls]

This is too expensive for me. I'm going to have to pass.