Reaper prepainted minis - how was the result?

[frankthedm]

I liked the reaper Ogre FAR more thant the DDM Orge Muppets.

 

[Zaukrie]

I didn't like the quality all that much, some of the DDM commons and uncommons are better, most are not.

If you want cheap minis, search on ebay for people selling dreamblade minis. Many are good for D&D, and the game was cancelled. Or, try your FLGS if you have one. Their ogres and giants are nice, and I've been slowly buying them for $1 per!

That said, my opinion should be taken with a grain of salt, I probably own 2000 DDM.

 

[frankthedm]

DDM started off mediocre in sculpt and paint, but got good fairly fast, they took a turn for the worse after that and have leveled off a with a few good and a few more not so good figs.

Sadly the DDM 2.0 grick looks like a HUGE step backwards in quality from the GoL grick from years ago.

 

[jdrakeh]

I think the ease with which large quantities of DDM Commons can be found is overstated here. It seems that most of the people posting about this may already own large quantities of such minis. Obviously, they're not the intended market here. In my experience. . .

Creating a whole Orc/Skeleton/Zombie army with new DDM minis in their randomized booster packas will actually cost you far more than building the same army several times over using GW metal figures. You can buy the whole army at once from GW, rather than being forced to pick through nearly 1k worth of randomized blister packs to peice said army together (don't laugh -- I learned this the hard, really expensive, way). If you're loaded to the gills with time or money, this may be an option. If not, it really isn't.

Buying used DDM minis, you're a bit better off - if you have loads of free time to kill. I'm not certain that I've ever seen more than twenty or so Commons of a given creature type for sale in one place before. While it's true that you can browse eBay and such for Common DDM minis, assembling enough to build a proper army of any sort requires multiple purchases from multiple sellers and, at the end of the day, a lot of silent prayers and crossed fingers hoping that everything falls into place in time for your game.

With the boxed lots of Reaper minis, OTOH, you get the benefit of being able to buy everything that you need in one go and it won't set you back very much. i think that this is the demographic that Reaper minis aim for -- people short on time and money that want to build awesome armies quickly and on a tight budget. These are two things that DDM and metal minis typically don't let one do.

 

[frankthedm]

Buying used DDM minis, you're a bit better off - if you have loads of free time to kill. I'm not certain that I've ever seen more than twenty or so Commons of a given creature type for sale in one place before.

Many ebay sellers have stores with exactly that. Just keep an eye on wwhich have flat rate shipping.

http://stores.ebay.com/CHEAPminis
http://stores.ebay.com/Auggies-Games-n-Movies
http://store02.prostores.com/servlet/auggiesgames/StoreFront

 

[pogre]

I don't know about that.

After all, all the first run were pretty simple scuplts (and the transistion from Metal to Plastic is not an easy one).

By keeping to just a few creature types (Skeletons, orcs) you have a much better shot at developing some good QA procedures (both in prodution & painting). It looks like they want to make sure they do it right before they really jump out there with other options (which seem to be coming).

As someone who has to usually game at my local store instead of my house, I like to have a bunch of very similiar monsters (All these Skeletons are Gnolls, & all these Orcs are Sahuagin, etc).

If I have enough spare change on game nights, I'll keep picking up a Skeleton, Orc or 2.

If they keep relying on their old Dark Heaven Legends Sculpts for the Base Mini, we could see a lot of cool plastic figs by this time next year.

I don't have sales numbers so I certainly cannot counter what you have said. I just know the common monsters are fairly easy to find while the ogre and minotaur are getting more difficult. I cannot refute your logic in terms of Reaper's plans, but appealing to the DDM crowd would seem like a better way to go.

I'm blessed with a permanent gaming space, otherwise I might use plastics. I already use them for conventions - I cannot stand to have others abuse my paint jobs.

 

[MerricB]

Personally I think Reaper went about this the wrong way. They should be making those minis that are expensive to buy on the DDM secondary market. Dragons are the obvious choice, but several of the Demons and Devil minis are also quite expensive. Basically any of the minis that are in the Rare category for DDM.

Sadly, this just isn't economical.

For any miniature release, you really need to look at what the market actually wants. For your average consumer (i.e. not someone on e-bay, at least, not yet), they want the miniatures they use in their game.

By far, the most common monsters are Goblins and Orcs. Simple undead (e.g. Skeletons) are also up there.

Now you need to ask yourself how many times you actually need 8 barbed devils in your game. Sure, it'll come up every so often... but regularly? How about that Pit Fiend? What, you've never used a Pit Fiend?

Reaper is in an even worse bind just at the moment due to 4e. Sure, orcs and goblins are still going to be popular, but is there even going to be a barbed devil in 4e?

I think Reaper can do well making "rare" mini-types like devils. However, for the ongoing sales of the line, you need figures that everyone wants. Skeletons and Orcs.

Cheers!

 

[Twowolves]

I believe they have sold out of the first production run, and have released a second "wave" of the orcs and skeletons from that batch. While not new sculpts, this second wave has improved paintjobs. The next couple of series' master sculpts/paint jobs are up at the link Lord Tirian provided, and even if the actual figures look only half as good, they will still rock the socks off of any DDM they've been putting out these days, IMO.

 

[humble minion]

Sadly, this just isn't economical.

For any miniature release, you really need to look at what the market actually wants. For your average consumer (i.e. not someone on e-bay, at least, not yet), they want the miniatures they use in their game.

By far, the most common monsters are Goblins and Orcs. Simple undead (e.g. Skeletons) are also up there.

Now you need to ask yourself how many times you actually need 8 barbed devils in your game. Sure, it'll come up every so often... but regularly? How about that Pit Fiend? What, you've never used a Pit Fiend?

Reaper is in an even worse bind just at the moment due to 4e. Sure, orcs and goblins are still going to be popular, but is there even going to be a barbed devil in 4e?

I think Reaper can do well making "rare" mini-types like devils. However, for the ongoing sales of the line, you need figures that everyone wants. Skeletons and Orcs.

Cheers!

No evidence, but my gut feeling says you're wrong here.

You assume your 'average consumer' is not on ebay and then cannot or will not be able to buy skeletons for 19c each or whatever. I'm not so sure about that these days (and Reaper's prices vs secondary market prices basically rule Reaper instantly out of contention for any customer who IS on ebay), but we'll let it slide for the moment. But your assumption implies that this 'average customer' buys his/her minis in person from a games shop. A games shop that has already been selling DDM for years.

I'd reckon it's odds-on that pretty much every prospective customer Reaper has, already owns a considerable number of DDM. Sure there'll be a handful who refused to buy randomised packs, but to be honest (as in any internet boycott) I reckon they'd be a fairly small minority. As a general rule, the vast majority of people who like to use minis in their D&D game (and Reaper isn't going to sell to those who don't, after all) will have already bought a bunch of DDM. These people are Reaper's market segment. And they already own a horde of goblins, orcs and skeletons. I'm not sure why they'd buy more. Much better to sel them stuff they don't have already but which, thanks to WotCs random booster and set obsolescence policy, is difficult or expensive to find.

The point about certain demons/devils no longer existing in 4e is well made, but that's a pretty specific case. A lot is going to stay the same. A large, riderless red dragon would do well for Reaper, I reckon. Targeting the iconic D&D monsters that WotC made as rares in out-of-print sets, and the creatures that appear in large groups yet are rare sculpts would be the way for them to go, imho. Giants, dragons, mounted figures (goblin worgriders, skeletal cavalry, human mounted archers or knights), quite aside from the obvious lesser fiends like bearded devils and vrocks. Another option (market research permitting) could have been to produce a range partly inspired by the monsters found in one of the Paizo Adventure Paths, to give yourself a guaranteed market, at least to start. I know as a Savage Tide GM I'd be all over bar-lgura, succubi, jungle tribesmen, and a nice big 'Demogorgon', and I don't think any of these are economically unviable ideas. (Kopru might be a different matter, though!) Admittedly though since Reaper is working using their metal range as a starting point I'm not sure how possible this would have been with the sculpts they have available, but I do think they would have benefited from a little more daring and lateral thinking when it came to the way they approached the market.

I'm not sure about the economics of it of course, but from an outsiders point of view, a large range of sculpts with smallish print runs and higher individual prices might be the way to go. It's just really hard to believe that enough people (except maybe your odd lazy Warhammer player) will pay so enormously far over the ebay odds for skellies and goblins.

 

[Festivus]

I would buy hard to get/expensive stuff from DDM, like Umber Hulks, Beholders, Large Red Dragons, etc.