Recruiting to playtest Steel Dragon's World of Orea RPG: D&D 1 & 2e base +

[Binder Fred]

Definitively a toss-up between the Dual Wielder and the Skirmisher right now. Short on time tonight, but quickly: do I understand that the Dual Wielder doesn't get any maneuvers at 1st evel (since he doesn't technically have any ranks)? Could I get a description of what the Skirmisher maneuvers do?

"No shadow"? Interesting. Ok.

Was looking for something that would show his lack of souls. The classic associations are shadows and/or strange eyes (windows to the soul and all that). I went with the shadow.

Re Reskinning: I don't believe I have any. What are your thoughts?

Quick background: Re-skinning is based on the idea that players shouldn't be penalized (or overly advantaged for that matter) for purely stylistic decisions. So if you decide that your guy really likes the feel of a short sword, why should he be penalyzed compared to the guy who buys a long one and likes it (assuming the two pay the same price), and things of that nature. The concept originates mostly from such systems as Mutants and Masterminds and the Hero system, where game effect and the IC representation of that effect are entirely separate things. You pay a fixed price for the former (i.e. you buy "1d8 point of melee-range damage that takes one hand to use and a move action to draw/activate"), then decide what it looks like IC when you originally buy it (a short sword, long one, a very sharp dagger, a boxing glove in a wind-up box, etc).

It's not very OSR, granted.

 

[steeldragons]

do I understand that the Dual Wielder doesn't get any maneuvers at 1st evel (since he doesn't technically have any ranks)?

Oh no! Sorry if it sounded that way. You still pick a maneuver to start...you would have 1 rank in that Theme.

It's just that most other Warrior Themes offer a +1 to something (attack roll, damage roll or AC) for each rank. Dual-wielder doesn't because your "first rank bonus" is using two weapons without penalty. So when/if you put your next Theme rank into Dual-wielder again, then the bonus goes up to +1 to hit for one of your two attacks and a second maneuver. 3 ranks is +1 to hit with both attacks and a third maneuver. 4 ranks is +2 to 1 attack and +1 to the other and another maneuver. 5 ranks= +2 to hit with both attacks and you would then have all 5 maneuvers. At this point the Theme is "maxed out", i.e. you'll have to pick something besides Dual-Wielder with your next theme rank.

Could I get a description of what the Skirmisher maneuvers do?

Coitenly.
Bash: The warrior makes an attack with their non-weapon arm/elbow, shield, or some other weighty object. The attack is in addition to their normal weapon attack and may be against a separate target within 5 feet of the fighter. Damage is d4 + Strength modifier and forces a save from the target to beat DC10 + theme ranks. A successful save indicates the target is stunned and cannot act in the following round. A failed save means the target is knocked unconscious for d4 rounds.

Hit & Run: The fighter moves up to half their movement rate, attacks and moves the same distance away in the same round. All of this is considered part of the fighter’s attack. They can still move their normal rate for their round.

Parry: In lieu of an attack, the fighter blocks or “lock weapons” with an incoming attack, effectively canceling one strike per theme rank against them in that round. While parrying, the fighter also adds their theme ranks to their AC.

Quick Mount: The warrior can dismount their animal and attack or attack and get on their mount within the same round without penalty as long as the mount and the target are within 10’ of each other.

Rapid Strike: The fighter can move up to half their movement rate and make 1 attack before initiative is rolled. They are then free to take their turn as normal.

Whatever maneuvers you select may be performed Level + Con. modifier per day. Maneuvers are to Fighters as Spells are to Mages. They only have the stamina and expertise to perform them a certain number of times per day...which obviously, increases as they increase level.

For example: When you hit 3rd level and choose a second maneuver. You would be able to use maneuvers 5 times/day (you have a +2 Con. mod. right?) and would have 2 maneuvers to choose from.

Quick background: Re-skinning is based on the idea that players shouldn't be penalized (or overly advantaged for that matter) for purely stylistic decisions. -snip- You pay a fixed price for the former (i.e. you buy "1d8 point of melee-range damage that takes one hand to use and a move action to draw/activate"), then decide what it looks like IC when you originally buy it (a short sword, long one, a very sharp dagger, a boxing glove in a wind-up box, etc).

It's not very OSR, granted.

Yeah. I get it. And I see the appeal for things like superhero games where you could have a dozen different characters with a dozen different ways to have "Energy Blast" depending on how they want flavor/color their powers. Totally makes sense in that style.

I just don't agree with it, stylistically, for the kind of game/feel I'm trying to evoke in the World of Orea RPG (which is obviously based on D&D).

Also...we're gonna have to hope we get a couple more players interested around here. hahaha.

I mean, I'm more than happy to run a solo...at least to start. Haven't done that in a dog's age. But I would like to see various elements of the game interacting/tested out.

Are the spellcasters too powerful for the noncaster types? Is the skill system/set up too cumbersome for clerics but works fine for rogues? Do the skills work in play at all? Or is the list too limited or do I just scrap it all for Ability Checks? Does the fighter increase in level too quickly compared to the ranger or paladin? How do the Psychics and Mages work/feel same/different side-by-side in play? For that matter, how does the Psychic's Power Point system play/work, at all?

Come on folks...I don't bite...I mean, not unless requested.

 

[Binder Fred]

Oh no! Sorry if it sounded that way. You still pick a maneuver to start...you would have 1 rank in that Theme.

Ah, ok. Then sorry to be a bother, but could I get what the Dual Wielder's maneuvers do please?

I mean, I'm more than happy to run a solo...at least to start. Haven't done that in a dog's age.

No objections to a solo game on my end. That said, no objections to an adventuring party either .

If we're just a few, then we basically have a DM at our beck and call storydirection-wise. We could maybe explore some less well troded roads if another/other player(s) feel so inclined. Just brainstorming here: I've already mentionned my penchant towards a trip to the faerie realms, but another unusual idea that's been trotting in my head in the rogue register is grave-robbing. For the looting, obviously, but there could also be a fair demand for the bodies themselves too -- for re-animationists, sure, but also from the much less dangerous (though often none the less insane) alchemists and practitioners of the burgeoning art of Chirurgy, a few of those respectable, well-meaning priests! (Let his father say he's not contributing to the furthering of 'civilization' now! ). Could give opportunity to meet all sorts of strange folk, nocturnal phenomena and - who knows - the occasional dark or melancholic fae? (some of them in a betting mood?)

 

[steeldragons]

Ah, ok. Then sorry to be a bother, but could I get what the Dual Wielder's maneuvers do please?

No bother at all! What were they again? hahaha. <rummages through pages and pages...electronic pages, so no worries >

Skirmisher getsssss...to choose for each rank (1 at 1st level, 2 at 3rd, etc...)
Deadly Strike: On a successful attack against their chosen prey that hits 2 or more above the required roll (or a natural 20), the Fighter does double damage.

Disarm: With a successful attack, the fighter forces a Dexterity save from the target to beat DC10 + the fighter’s level and ranks in their theme. Failure indicates the target is disarmed, losing grip of their weapon. A successful save means the target suffers no effect beyond normal damage. Note that this maneuver is only applicable against enemies wielding weapons that can be dropped or somehow separated from them. "Natural" weapons, like claws or fangs, cannot be "disarmed."

Double-edged: The fighter can attack two separate targets (one with each weapon) as long as those targets are both within 5 feet of the fighter.

Parry: In lieu of an attack, the fighter blocks or “lock weapons” with an incoming attack, effectively canceling one strike per theme rank against them in that round. While parrying, the fighter adds their theme ranks to their AC (as applies to other, unblocked, attacks).

Whirlwind Attack: The fighter twirls through the battlefield attacking as many opponents as are within reach (normally within a 5’ radius) of their current position. Individual attack rolls are needed for each person.

No objections to a solo game on my end. That said, no objections to an adventuring party either .

Got any interested friends? Do you like what you've seen thus far?

 

[Binder Fred]

Deadly Strike: On a successful attack against their chosen prey that hits 2 or more above the required roll (or a natural 20), the Fighter does double damage.

I'm guessing "chosen prey" is something like the ranger's favored ennemy, right? So human, fae, goblins, etc?

Parry: In lieu of an attack, the fighter blocks or “lock weapons” with an incoming attack, effectively canceling one strike per theme rank against them in that round. While parrying, the fighter adds their theme ranks to their AC (as applies to other, unblocked, attacks).

Bit confused by this one. Is the strike cancellation automatic? If so, it would seem that a Dual Wielder with the parry maneuver simply cannot be struck by anybody who has only a single attack per round?

Will get back to you on the rest: limited time and all that. (sorry).

 

[Binder Fred]

And I'm back.

RE impressions of the system so far, kind of difficult to say with just the few glimpses. Might help if I knew what your design goals are? I'll say that I rather like the themes (sort of a 5E thing there) for their added flexibility and customization potential. At first glance that seems an odd fit compared to the reduced weapon and armor options though (your gain in "feel" there is not quite clear to me?). The skills are equal to themselves in 3.5 - except that SPs apparently weight a lot more? - meaning I usually find them too granular/that there's too many of them (I tend to favor broad skill categories with the the ability to specialize if you want). I'm guesssing that's so only Rogues and Wizards can truly shine in that department, forcing the others to focus down? (Not a requirement by any means, but I'd suggest adding a free "hobby/background" skill point for all classes nevertheless? Always a nice touch, I find ).

RE other players, the board *is* remarkably calm this summer for some reason. I'll send out a few feelers and see if I get any nibbles.

Right now I'm favoring Rogue class, Dual Wielder Theme, Parry maneuver, SP in Athletics plus Planar Knowledge and Common plus Fae as languages (does that work with his int? or not?). Meaning we're on to gear, right? How does that work?

Question: how does drawing weapons work in this system? And, on a related note: what are the laws like re wearing weaponry for commoners? Since he's skirting the edge of the law, I figure he'd keep his short swords hidden, with just a dagger at his waist (one of the advantages of short vs long swords). Boot/calve sheats with subtly slashed garments maybe? Can he use Sleight of Hand to draw hidden weapons/objects like regularly sheathed weapons? Might as well get some use out of that skill, right, since a pickpocket he is not.

 

[steeldragons]

And I'm back.

Welcome!

RE impressions of the system so far, kind of difficult to say with just the few glimpses. Might help if I knew what your design goals are?

I'm aiming for a system with maximum flexibility and customization without getting tooooo bogged down in crunch or complicated.

Obviously [or perhaps not so], it is the World of Orea RPG...so whatever is offered/added/included should/ought to lend as much to flavor of the world/campaign setting as to the "system."...at least in my head. hahaha. So the fact that some other system or edition or RPG might do things a certain way is not of concepquence to me if it doesn't fit in with my vision of Orea. As the world and game's creator, I do take a certain amount of latitude in this respect...and obviously, people who are not familiar with the world as I am [though I'm hoping will/can become] will and should be able to play however they like...or take the system and go play in other settings...or if they like the setting, take their edition/system of choice and plop it into Orea...It is difficult to explain.

I am decidedly more interested in a "feeling" of older versions of D&D, by which I mean pre-3.x though as you note there are certainly some elements [those I felt added without becoming too intrusive/complicated] of both 3 and 4 and, yes, even 5 [the noted addition of "theme", though I think 2e's kits foreshadowed this well]. That is not to say the game is necessarily "gritty", but can certainly be played that way. Nor is it mandatory to be "high magic" though, again, can certainly be played that way/has the elements present to do so.

I am definitely more interested in fluff v. crunch..."rulings not rules"...rules that are/can be interpretive...the interest and imagination of "creating" PCs to match a player's concept vs. a "build" or [beyond a reasonable amount of] optimization. Can it be played with the latters in mind? I'm sure that it can. But that is not something I would put in/make decisions for the system to be based on.

I'm not sure if that explains better or muddies the waters further...as is often the case when I try to explain things. lol. Sorry if that isn't helpful.

I'll say that I rather like the themes (sort of a 5E thing there) for their added flexibility and customization potential. At first glance that seems an odd fit compared to the reduced weapon and armor options though (your gain in "feel" there is not quite clear to me?).

Thieves, and/or Rogue classes in general, should expect to be and play for speed and reflexes, agility and a good amount of skill-reliance. So they can put on a suit of plate...anyone could put on a suit of plate...but the class is not designed to be its most "useful" [maybe is the word I'm thinking?] by doing so.
Can they carry around and wield a battle axe? Of course they can. Anyone, any class, could. But they will not be at their best, for themselves or a group, by doing so.

A mage pick up a sword and use it/carry it around. Sure they can. But they are not trained in the use of such weapons. It is not part of their interest or training. Not part of their make up. They can try to make it so. There's a Weapon Proficiency skill that allows this and offsets the standard non-proficient penalty to trying to use it. There's at least one theme [that I can think of] that could also help. And if you want a "Gandalf" type wizard who goes around swinging a magic sword, you can do that. Will that require sacrificing other options? Yes. It will. Either in SP expenditure or a theme rank...but it can be done if that's what the player chooses.

The skills are equal to themselves in 3.5 - except that SPs apparently weight a lot more? - meaning I usually find them too granular/that there's too many of them (I tend to favor broad skill categories with the the ability to specialize if you want).

The skills are indeed, I think, fairly broad. And by all means, if the player comes up with a skill usable/application that the game hasn't thought of, it is certainly worth bringing up and the DM will be urged to allow it.

I'm guesssing that's so only Rogues and Wizards can truly shine in that department, forcing the others to focus down? (Not a requirement by any means, but I'd suggest adding a free "hobby/background" skill point for all classes nevertheless? Always a nice touch, I find ).

Mnyah. I don't think it's because of that. Though Rogues do gain SPs quicker than other classes. It's their 'thing." Warriors get fighting stuf, Wizard classes get arcane spells, Priest classes get channeling and spells (divine or nature)...rogues get [more] skills [than others].

RE other players, the board *is* remarkably calm this summer for some reason. I'll send out a few feelers and see if I get any nibbles.

Excellent! Thanks.

Right now I'm favoring Rogue class, Dual Wielder Theme, Parry maneuver, SP in Athletics plus Planar Knowledge and Common plus Fae as languages (does that work with his int? or not?). Meaning we're on to gear, right? How does that work?

Well, you're human right? So you get Common anyway...and a homeland tongue if appropriate. If you go for Freelander, then no. Faye would be "Sylvan", which also allows speech with faye creatures, satyrs and centaurs (and probably other sylvan critters I haven't though of yet.) Your intelligence is what? You gain room for as many additional languages as you have Intelligence modifiers. Of course, as a Freelander you don't have a "homeland tongue", so I'm should probably allow 1 freebie so they [as other human cultural choices] begin with 2 languages...and would help skew the game to have people begin in the rather traditionally sandboxy Freelands.

Question: how does drawing weapons work in this system? And, on a related note: what are the laws like re wearing weaponry for commoners? Since he's skirting the edge of the law, I figure he'd keep his short swords hidden, with just a dagger at his waist (one of the advantages of short vs long swords). Boot/calve sheats with subtly slashed garments maybe?

I....don't actually have a mechanic for that. Draw weapons would, I suppose to borrow from my limited understandign of modern terminology, be "free action." CHANGING weapons, from a bow to a drawn weapon or if you were carrying a spear but wanted to attack with the hand axe on your hip, for example, would take an action/"your turn"...as far as I've defined thus far. It is possible that too could be considered to not take any time...though to my mind, unless you're just dropping a bow to the floor, you can sheathe it in your quiver or throw it over your shoulder and draw a bladed weapon without some kind of action enough to "take your turn"...like I said, that's pretty mutable at the moment.

Can he use Sleight of Hand to draw hidden weapons/objects like regularly sheathed weapons? Might as well get some use out of that skill, right, since a pickpocket he is not.

If you wanted to do so without people noticing, then I would say yes, that's a use for Sleight of Hand. If, for example, you have your short swords hidden and while someone is speaking to the hobgoblin captain for your party, trying to avoid a confrontation, and you want to draw your weapons unseen because you have a hunch they are going to attack anyway...then yeah. Use SoH. Or put them back/away. Palm an object from a table while others are in the room. Do a "find the stone under the shell" scam. Dance a coin across your knuckles and make it disappear into your sleeve. GASP! You're MAGIC!? Those [and probably many more] are all covered with SoH.

I can send/give you a complete list of Skills, with their descriptions, in a PM if that's agreeable. (you haven't seen that yet, have you?)

Gear is simple...I'll give you a list of the "stuff" for sale...and your starting money as a Thief/Rogue...is 150gp, I believe...though most of the equip list is in silver pieces...but armor and weapons, mostly, are still going to cost gold. 10sp = 1 gp.

OR, I have a standardized "Rogue's Pack" that will cost you...something I can look up and/or send you that info as well. Weapons and Armor, of course, are not included in that. But your thieves tools, backpack, rations and random items you could find useful are.

 

[steeldragons]

So you would be:
Name: John the [what was it?], various aliases.
Human: Freelander [?]/ Male or Female ? (doesn't matter/change anything)
Rogue 1.

Themes 1 (next rank at 3rd level): Dual-wielder 1
Maneuvers: Parry [from theme], Sneak Attack [from class] +2 to hit base AC, +5 damage.

Skills/SPs 2 (next SP at 3rd level) [all bonuses listed include the Thief's Skill Mastery class feature bonus of +1]: Skill Mastery (+1 to any skill roll), Stealth +3, Climbing/Footing +3, Search +3, Disarm Device +3, Sleight of Hand +3. In addition to your Thief's skills from the class: Athletics [1 SP + 1 for Thief's Skill Mastery feature =] +2.

And you have a remaining 1 Skill Point from your class to spend somewhere.

Weapons (3 proficiencies, next proficiency at 4th level): Short sword [seems a definite], 2 more to choose.

Languages: Common, Sylvan [in lieu of Homeland tongue], Thieves' Cant [from class].

Gear: 150gp for weapons (including the short swords I'm assuming), armor and equipment.

We sympatico?

 

[Scott DeWar]

Good travels with this! Read up and I am going to just lurk to read the story.

 

[steeldragons]

Good travels with this! Read up and I am going to just lurk to read the story.

Fair enough. Maybe, after some lurking and [hopefully] good story, you might want to join.