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Response to recent article by James Wyatt on DMG

SDOgre

First Post
If you read the dragon articles of the time, then female characters needed different stats and character classes to male characters...

1E tried to mimic reality in that sense. 4E doesn't even pretend to in any sense. Which is fine. It has been the shift since 1E. 4E made it final in every aspect.

To be exact though in 1E it was a strength maximum that female characters could have.
 

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FireLance

Legend
Actually, I think that the way that 4e handles magic items provides a good mix between DM control and player control. Magic items higher than the PCs' level are entirely subject to DM control, but the PCs have considerable freedom to customize the magic items of their level or less any way they want. I think this gives the players a sense of progression: the magic items that they were excited to find at 5th level seem less wondrous at 10th level, but there are always new magic items to look forward to.
 

FireLance

Legend
What I think people are missing is that D&D is a fantasy game. Magic items are... well... MAGIC! Magic is supposed to be mysterious, surprising, exciting...

What's mysterious about a list of weapons to choose from.. or God forbid, to make a wish list from and give to your DM. Holy crap.

This isn't Shadowrun where you buy books full of cool gear you can buy. Magic items are supposed to be special, rare, mysterious, exciting to get and figure out what they do.

4E PHB killed that.

...

I really like 4E overall. Lots of improvements. Lots of things I'm still holding judgment out on. But putting that list in the PHB just made a huge paradigm switch in the game. It made it very different.

And in this case, different is not good.
Just to reiterate the point I made in my previous post, magic items higher than your level are under the control of the DM and can be mysterious, surprising, exciting, etc.

Magic items of your level and below are no different from regular gear, and you have some degree of control over how they can be customized.

I'd expect a 21st-level paladin to be excited at getting a holy avenger +5. It makes very little sense to me that the same paladin would get excited over a frost longsword +1 just because it is magic.
 

Cabral

First Post
1E tried to mimic reality in that sense. 4E doesn't even pretend to in any sense. Which is fine. It has been the shift since 1E. 4E made it final in every aspect.

To be exact though in 1E it was a strength maximum that female characters could have.

Just a quick look at men's versus women's weight lift records (http://users.pandora.be/tom.goegebuer/WR92_M.htm was the only one I could find good comparisons of men-women in the same weight range), the reality of the matter is women in the same weight range as men can lift comparable weights (ie, can achieve the same levels of strength).

1e tried to mimic male delusions. ;)
 

Incenjucar

Legend
My DMing philosophy is to make the game an unspoken compromise.

(My players, do not look below, moderate spoilers)

I pay a great deal of attention to what the players say and do, how they react to the game world itself, and sometimes I ask little questions; the other day I asked them to give me a single word each, and the words I got, aside from a crude joke response I turned into a young werebear, was "Expensive Samurai Apocalypses Mjolnir"

So I put together a samurai death knight in golden armor and her werebear son by way of a mighty berserker, who will be giving a Thunderburst Throwing Hammer after a successful quest, and they will be seeking to doom the world in a different way from the primary antagonist.

I also noticed that the party rogue has a heart attack any time he takes damage. So along with the Thunderburst Throwing Hammer, there will be a Lifedrinker Short Sword coming from the expensive samurai.

However, the adventure itself is based around a sound-hating adversary, so the first magic weapon the party got was a Thundering Longsword, given to them by a grateful Whale King they unbeached.

As the campaign goes on, I'll keep figuring out what they would find interesting or useful, while also putting things in which simply make sense for the story. If I miss anything especially vital to their personal vision, they can make it, so there's no moping to worry about.
 
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Xorn

First Post
James Wyatt was also quoted in a podcast as pointing out that if you wanted to run without magic items, you just need to increment attack and damage bonuses by 1 every 5 levels or so to match the expected magic item level for the characters, balance-wise.

Magic items, while kick ass, have a much smaller impact than they used to.
 


GoLu

First Post
What I think people are missing is that D&D is a fantasy game. Magic items are... well... MAGIC! Magic is supposed to be mysterious, surprising, exciting...

Interesting take on it. The way I see it, making the wizard a PC class basically killed that idea. There are still mysterious magical things in the world, but some magic is perfectly well known. Both low level magic items and PC powers fall into that second category. There is plenty of room for strange magical effects, magic terrain, arcane energies dealt with via skill challenge, artifacts, custom magic items, monster abilities, and the like. All of those can be plenty mysterious, surprising or exciting (or any combination of the three).
 

SDOgre

First Post
Just to reiterate the point I made in my previous post, magic items higher than your level are under the control of the DM and can be mysterious, surprising, exciting, etc.

My point is, by putting that list in the PHB it takes away the mystery, surprise, and some of the excitement. I may control which magic items of higher level they get but I have lost control of some of the mystery, surprise, and excitement.
 

SDOgre

First Post
Just a quick look at men's versus women's weight lift records (http://users.pandora.be/tom.goegebuer/WR92_M.htm was the only one I could find good comparisons of men-women in the same weight range), the reality of the matter is women in the same weight range as men can lift comparable weights (ie, can achieve the same levels of strength).

1e tried to mimic male delusions. ;)

You're comparing apples and oranges. A 130 pound man is not an average man. He's small and comparable weak to other men. Saying a woman of that weight (an average woman - we're talking fit people by the way) is as strong as a weak man doesn't prove your point.

Compare the strongest men to the strongest women.
Or average men to the average woman.
Or the weakest.

At every point in the scale men are much stronger than women, particularly in upper body strength.

Oh, geeze, why am I getting into this conversation...
 

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