D&D 4E Revised 4E Wizard Class with Freeform Spellcasting System

[Neonchameleon]

Hmm... add Grabbed to the force list?

And my Block of Ice works as an encounter power doing int-mod damage. But can kill anything. Needs nerfing somehow. For that matter the Solid Fog encounter power can do likewise. (Encounter (3d) - 1 (cloud), -2 (immobilised), -1 (burst 2)) for no damage in a 5*5.

The wall of disintegration is also quite fun. As is the Wall of Blinding. And come to think of it, Disintegrating Ray and Disintegrating Ball are both extremely powerful at wills even for paragon.

 

[Keenberg]

Not if this wizard duo can daze, prone, immobilize, and/or blind the baddies every turn, they won't get to them. And that still leaves 2 wizards to do nothing but damage. Still, maybe I've become jaded after running so many games with power-gamers. I'll concede that for casual and RP heavy groups, you're probably right.

About being jaded from power-gaming groups, I can say that is a point you have made well. I personally play with very casual gamers, and must admit that what you brought up never occured to me. At the same time, there will always be players trying to subvert the mechanics of whatever system they're using. It's to be expected. If I ws DMing that game of a party full of wizards trying to break the game, you could bet I'd find some really interesting ways to make encounters tough and fun, regardless of the power-gaming and strategizing going on. Might even be cool to write a story of a party of wizards banding together for a cause!

 

[Neonchameleon]

What really worries me about this system is the "spam effect". That Wizards always cast the same very few spells. Ray of Daze at will (or Ray of Knockdown). Wall of Ice followed by Wall of Disintegration. And you're down to simply having a few spells in the book again.

 

[Upper_Krust]

Hi there!

Perhaps a "target makes a basic attack against a creature the caster chooses" can be a Heroic-level effect for Psychic, with a -2 dice modifier? Then a "move and make an attack" at paragon, and full dominate at epic.

Sounds llike 3 different conditions. I'll think about it though.

I was also wondering if some effects might be available as dailies in heroic, encounters in paragon, and dailies at epic level.

You think I should just leave everything up to the modifiers and remove the Tier distinctions?

I don't think "save ends" effects should ever be at-wills, at any tier.

I'm considering changing all "Save ends" spells to "Until the end of your next turn" and making (Save ends) double the modifier (-1 becomes -2, -2 becomes -4 etc.)

So stun would be -2, but to make it save ends it becomes -4.

What do you think?

 

[Upper_Krust]

Howdy Keenburg!

True. To me it felt like a realistic representation of powers scaling up, which is present in the revised system because as you level you get more dice (and therefore options to add cool effects to the spells.)

I'll concede that point. infact, as I was writing the narrative, I felt like I was quite quickly becoming familiar with the mechanics. I consider this a good thing.

Immersive. I like it. Really gets you into the shoes of the PC.

hadn't considered the full repercussions of how spells would change with leveling. This point of yours brought it into perspective. Very cool.

Cheers dude!

I wrote up the narrative to describe how the spell-casting process isn't actually simplified. Yes, the crunch is simplified, but not the combat practice.

4e: Here's your spells-pick one. Done.
Revised: Time to cast a spell. Think it out for a while. Work through the steps. Consider a wealth of options before coming to your decision.

Even if it came down making the choice between using one in my "spellbook" or crafting a new one, that is still more thought than with 4e, So, more complicated. Not a bad thing IMO, but a very neat option. I like that crunch disappears and options open up at the same time.

I think any added complexity is vastly outweighed by every other factor where it trumps the official system hands down.

Plus, worst case scenario, you can ape the official setup by having a bunch of pregen'ed spells.

Also, as you noted, even with a brief period spent looking over the rules you found yourself becoming more familiar (and comfortable?) with them. Now imagine how intuitive they would feel after a session or two of play.

 

[Upper_Krust]

Let me be the first to nominate this as the 5e/New Horizons spell-casting system for wizards and mages (at least).

That was actually my initial reason for Revising the Fighter, just to give an opinion as to how I would design 5E's combat.

 

[Upper_Krust]

Howdy Saagael!

...and thanks to Keenburg for replying to Saagael's earlier post.

Cool, didn't see this. Will check it out.

I will be uploading a new (and improved) version of the Fighter in a few days time.

Not if this wizard duo can daze, prone, immobilize, and/or blind the baddies every turn, they won't get to them. And that still leaves 2 wizards to do nothing but damage. Still, maybe I've become jaded after running so many games with power-gamers. I'll concede that for casual and RP heavy groups, you're probably right.

I'm still tweaking the balance on this Revised Wizard class. I know a few points will definately be changing in the next draft.

I did the thought exercise, but I get the same result as I do when using the current AEDU powers. Its actually easier for me to picture how AEDU powers look in the game world. But again, this might be because I haven't used. Just offering my preference.

Any new system always seems more complicated than one you are inherently familiar with, thats just human nature.

 

[Upper_Krust]

Hey Neonchameleon, thanks for the feedback!

Hmm... add Grabbed to the force list?

Good idea.

And my Block of Ice works as an encounter power doing int-mod damage. But can kill anything. Needs nerfing somehow. For that matter the Solid Fog encounter power can do likewise. (Encounter (3d) - 1 (cloud), -2 (immobilised), -1 (burst 2)) for no damage in a 5*5.

Doesn't that drop the spell to below zero dice though? 3d - 1, -2, -1 = net -1d (therefore impossible to cast).

Also I am thinking that if you deal no dice of damage that you don't still get Int mod damage.

The wall of disintegration is also quite fun. As is the Wall of Blinding. And come to think of it, Disintegrating Ray and Disintegrating Ball are both extremely powerful at wills even for paragon.

I'll be nerfing Ray so it won't be giving a bonus.

I may change Disintigration to -4 and Annihilation to -8.

 

[Neonchameleon]

I'd assumed 0 dice was int-mod (as with Beguiling Strands) and -1 dice was no damage. And you need to define how walls work. Just in wall or adjacent for reduced damage. And autohit or not.

 

[Chris Knapp]

I posted a system a few years ago that we used for Dragonlance games to mimic the old SAGA rules. Needs work, but maybe you can use some of it.