Revised monk

[Kerrick]

This is potentially too much for a second level character, and is still pretty sweet later on, given the bonus type. (It'll also help alot with iterative attacks with flurry of blows, too.) A progressive bonus would be better balanced.

Mm, good point. I made the AC bonus scale for just that reason, so it'd make sense to have this do the same.

Since you didn't list it with the basic class features, I was assuming that the class didn't get Fast Movement by default. Maybe you could tie Fast Movement more closely to a particular style, and the others could get something different instead?

I didn't list it to save space - they still get it, and it's unchanged. I never really saw the justification behind monks being really fast, though... Hmm. None of the styles really lends itself to being fast (maybe the Sun style... but that's more about short-term bursts of energy). Possibly Wind Style, but that's already got all its slots filled.

Does giving your monk a better version of rage (more uses) than the Barbarian really seem fair?

Oops. I forgot barbarians' rage was based on their level. I'll change that to 3/day; I already moved it to an Initiate ability (8th level), so it's the same as a barbarian of equal level, but they don't get more uses.

 

[Dannyalcatraz]

Some things to consider:

1) You might want to look at the Sohei's Ki-Frenzy instead of Rage.

2) You might want to give the class a wider variety of "monk weapons," either by virtue of looking up the various Feats that add a particular weapon to a PC's list of monk weapons, or by giving them a little cafeteria list to choose from at 1st level to simulate the weapon choices of various schools of martial arts.

Consider this from my homebrew, for example:

Weapon Proficiencies: The Martial Artist is proficient in all simple weapons, PLUS choose one of the following groups as the PC's Melee Martial Arts Weapons and additional Ranged weapons:

1) 1 One-handed and 2 Light Martial weapons + 1 Martial Ranged Weapon
2) 3 Exotic Light weapons + 1 Martial or Exotic Ranged Weapon
3) 1 Exotic Light Weapon + 1 Exotic One-handed weapon + 1 Martial Ranged Weapon
4) 1 Martial or Exotic 2 handed weapon + 1 Martial or Exotic Ranged Weapon
5) Any 5 Simple weapons +1 Martial or Exotic Ranged weapon

These Melee Martial arts weapons may be used with Flurry of Blows

Finally, if you need any more inspiration, check out these threads:
http://www.enworld.org/showthread.php?t=221182&page=1&pp=15
http://www.enworld.org/showthread.php?t=203353&page=1&pp=15

 

[Sylrae]

for wind, instead of giving them an increased fast movement, give them the +20, but dont give it to anyone else. give them +10 off the bat, and an extra +10 when they become an initiate. it fits the character, and I don't think its big enough to unbalance the sytle.

also, how would the monk already have the cloud walk from another source, what else gives it?

 

[Sylrae]

what is it about writers of game mechanics and assuming all characters are female, anyways. that always makes me angry. It's like the disincluding sexism that women used to complain about, only now its the other way around. personally I use *they*, which although informal, solves the problem without alternating back and forth.

but seriously, why does the game assume everyone is female? what purpose does it serve to write that way?

 

[Dagredhel]

what is it about writers of game mechanics and assuming all characters are female, anyways. that always makes me angry. It's like the disincluding sexism that women used to complain about, only now its the other way around. personally I use *they*, which although informal, solves the problem without alternating back and forth.

but seriously, why does the game assume everyone is female? what purpose does it serve to write that way?

If you went to college 15 years ago, you probably thought it was inane, but had to live with it as a requirement. I did. After a while, you get so used to it that it becomes force of habit. (I used "they" too, until my college writing instructors started marking off for it.)

 

[Sylrae]

No I'm going to university now, and currently they tell you to alternate, but that way is still stupid. what we need is a new goddamn pronoun. Maybe one that is NOT offensive to either gender.

 

[Kerrick]

1) You might want to look at the Sohei's Ki-Frenzy instead of Rage.

I don't have OA (that IS from OA, right?).

2) You might want to give the class a wider variety of "monk weapons," either by virtue of looking up the various Feats that add a particular weapon to a PC's list of monk weapons, or by giving them a little cafeteria list to choose from at 1st level to simulate the weapon choices of various schools of martial arts.

That's interesting. I like that. A martial arts style should have more than one weapon associated with it. Do you mind if I yoink it?

Finally, if you need any more inspiration, check out these threads:

Thanks, I'll do that.

for wind, instead of giving them an increased fast movement, give them the +20, but dont give it to anyone else. give them +10 off the bat, and an extra +10 when they become an initiate. it fits the character, and I don't think its big enough to unbalance the sytle.

So you mean get rid of the fast movement for ALL monks and just give it to the Wind Style? I'm kind of leaning that way myself - maybe give them a +10 at each style level.

OTOH, while there's no logical justification for fast movement, it might be necessary for monks - they have no armor, and they're designed to be fast-moving guerilla fighters - move in, strike, maybe disable or inconvenience the opponent with trip/disarm/whatever, then fade if the enemy is too strong. The new styles might obviate this, though - Mountain Style just sucks up the damage, Sun can use a short burst to get away, Ocean is good at evasion, and Wind would be naturally fast. The Heavens has been kind of neglected... Dawn is still nearly blank, but Twilight could drop a cloud of darkness or do a shadow slip and get away. So it could go either way - I think it would have to be playtested to see for sure.

also, how would the monk already have the cloud walk from another source, what else gives it?

That's not what it says. It says "If the monk already has this ability when she becomes a master..." Basically, it was my attempt to prevent the player from taking it at Master level and getting all the benefits - I wanted a way to build it up a bit, where you can only run across tree branches at first, then water (I considered running across clouds to be a bit much for a base class). I might just cut that line.

what is it about writers of game mechanics and assuming all characters are female, anyways. that always makes me angry. It's like the disincluding sexism that women used to complain about, only now its the other way around. personally I use *they*, which although informal, solves the problem without alternating back and forth.

Just FYI, I don't use "she" all the time, because it irritates the hell out of me too. I alternate between classes or PrCs - he for one, she for another, depending on what I feel like at the time. I just happened to choose she for monks; I could've used different pronouns for each style, but I thought using the same one would be best for internal consistency. I've got an English degree (creative writing), but I never encountered the "you should/must use this pronoun" thing. When I'm writing generic rules, feats, and whatnot, I always default to "he" (I also hate that "you" crap they introduced in 3E).

 

[Kerrick]

What do you guys think about each style having a different stat as a focus for its abilities? The base monk's skills (exclusive of fighting styles) aren't based on any one stat, so having a different focus for each wouldn't result in MAD. I was thinking something along the lines of:

Mountain: Con or Str (not sure, leaning toward Con)

Ocean: Wis or Dex (leaning toward Dex)

Sun: Cha

Heavens: Cha

Wind: Dex

It would increase variability among the styles and individual monks, and emphasize the basic differences between the styles - instead of everyone relying on Cha, they can play to their strengths (and it would reduce the need to rely on Cha as well as everything else, for most of the styles).

 

[Sylrae]

I'm kindof leaning towards altering your fighting styles to be more like the fighting styles in Avatar: The Last Airbender. I don't plan on giving them the small bits of element control they have in the show, but the fighting styles are alot like what you have going here. They only had 4 styles, but still. Mountains - Earth. About stubbornness, and strong stances, and dealing damage. CON matches stat wise perfectly. Water - spirituality. your sea style works great. I'd keep wisdom here. Sun/Fire - Agressive, and powerful. their abilities come from their emotions. CHA all the way. (I may tweak this one to be less about bursts of energy and to be more agressive in my game). and Wind/Air - about avoidance. Light quick movements, with an emphasis on avoidance and number of strikes. I love the idea of cloudwalk. it's awesome. For these guys I'd go Dex.

I know these aren't exactly what you were imagining, but they're all based on actual martial arts styles. Earth/Mountains would be based on Hun Gar (you could even call it Hun Gar). Fire/Sun would be based on Northern Shaolin KungFu. Water/Sea based on Tai Chi. and Air/Wind would be based on Bagua.

I dont really like your heavens styles. I like the abilities, but not the element stuff. I don't think positive and negative energy fit the Idea of a monk that I'm imagining. I love the temporary paralysis angle. Don't like shadowstrike, but I hate all things that cause permanent blindness in D&D they just make me angry because if im blinded I'm dead 2 rounds later. Save or dies suck. for quivering palm, I would change it do doing Con Damage. then a tough character will last longer. Also, some way to cure it should exist. maybe a potion, or a ritual, or some form of accupuncture/accupressure. Aspect of death doesn't fit a martial artist in my opinion. it falls under the same category of weird abilities that don't belong (that you were trying to fix)

I dont think fast movement is necessary for all of them.(maybe not any). Mountains/Earth/(Hun Gar) is about strong stances and endurance. they soak up damage. Water/Sea/TaiChi you reduce the damage by controlling your body movements/flow of energy. Fire/Sun/Northern Shao Lin presently uses burst of speed and other burst things, but I would keep them consistent. maybe give them the increased movement, but really I'd say their style is more of an "end the fight before they hit me" type of style. Air/Wind/Bagua I would make be the one about evasion. I don't just mean damage reduction, I mean total avoidance. Maybe an ability to which lets you cancel out attacks of opportunity before the opponent takes them, or an ability that lets you roll to dodge blows so the target hits nothing but air. I'm not sure what I would do for the heavens styles.

but I would line them up with actual schools of martial arts. I think it would just be awesome. and I don't think I'd give them supernatural energy channeling abilities. I mean it fits the asian mysticism associated with martial arts pretty well, but not really the practical aspect of it, you know? same with the undeath thing.

I'd go with Hun Gar instead of mountains, Northern Shao Lin instead of Sun, Tai Chi instead of Sea, Bagua instead of Wind, and instead of the Heavens, maybe base it on another style.

Xingyiquan matches up with your original concept of the sun style. It's all about bursts of power. I prefer the more consistent type of power though, so shao lin sounds better to me.


Chin-Na is the closes I saw to you heavens styles, Pressure point and Joint lock attacks are the focus, but standard martial attacks are there too. It supposedly is the holder of the "Dim Mak" or Death touch.

from a page I found online, "Strengths: An extremely well rounded style with a vast array of techniques that are effective against many types of opponents.

Weaknesses: This style is so replete with so many different types of techniques, its mastery takes much longer than other Chinese styles. Also, its techniques are so precise that any mistake by the practitioner in the execution of a technique will mean the loss of advantage of the practitioner. Where other styles might be effective if the technique is a “near miss”, in Chin-Na any miss is catastrophic. " maybe with some attacks, missing could provoke an attack of opportunity. wouldn't that be nasty.

Just some ideas.

and it took some looking, but I managed to pull it off with all chinese styles

Chin Na could be replaced by Jujutsu and Marma Shastra (neither of which are chinese). the Chin Na alternatives have parts of Chin NA, but not all of it. Marma Shastra is the pressure point one, and Jujutsu is about joint locks and throws. and neither of those two are very good with strikes with the hands or feet for punches and kicks and the like.

 

[Sylrae]

so the short version is. maybe you should use real styles as a basis? it seemed almost like thats what you were doing anyways.

and if you went with the styles, it may not be as hard to make up abilities based on descriptions of the styles online.

Hun Gar - Con - Mountains(Good as is style wise)
Northern Shaolin - Cha - aggressive and powerful, but not via bursts.
Chin Na - Int - Heavens (You could use part of your heavens style for this one)
Tai Chi - Wis - Sea (I love the wearing them down part, but maybe make the taking damage as lesser damage could be a more than once per day thing.
Bagua - Dex ( I like the speed ideas but would tweak it for more dodgey things)
and maybe Xingyiquan - (STR? so you have 1 of each? ) - bursts of power. I wouldn't pick this one personally but its the closest to your sun style. I would prefer to yank it and replace it with a new style.

I'm not sure they should all get the same AC bonus by stat.I'd vary it up, so the Con based ones get less AC, but get DR, and more powerful attacks, The Cha ones would get less AC, but be compensated with damage, the sea ones would get the second most AC, at standard, and the wind ones would get EXTRA AC, or standard AC with complete damage avoidance rolls/abilities. for Chin Na make it standard since they will be making lots of paralysis attacks.

if you use the Xingyiquan I dunno what I would do for them yet.

also, I don't think uses per day fits a monk. its a fighting class, and I think the abilities shouldn't have much in the way of daily limits. maybe a limit based on CON or a recharge time if absolutely necessary.