Rogue vs. Scout

[Nonlethal Force]

The Rogue is an excellent class that makes complete sense.

The Scout is at best a mediocre class that makes only partial sense. I'm being kind here.

See this is why opinion posts are not very useful. Because I typically find the rogue to be underpowered and the scout to be useful.

So much of it depends on the campaign that opinions are not really all that helpful. What kind of campaign are you planning on playing it in?

 

[Nonlethal Force]

Oh. Wow. So a party of two scouts (which mine is probably going to have) has a whole lot of potential, I take it...

As I have been quick to point out - totally dependant upon the DM and the campaign. If scouting and reconnaisance is going to be a large part of the party tactics and the DM is legit about the mechanics, at least one scout will be helpful. So long as they don't duplicate skills too much, two scouts could be useful, too. I'd rather match a scout up with a ranger, personally. The ranger gets a slightly different skill list, has different abilities, and perhaps most importantly is a full BAB advancement. A paladin or fighter works well with a scout. Heck, even a mage can work really well with a scout.

But, if you know that there won't be many opportunities to fight on the run or scout out ahead, you'll probably be hapier with the rogue.

 

[pawsplay]

I disagree. Underground I give the upper hand to the rogue. The scout may find his maneuverability hampered underground, whereas underground typically helps the rogue hide and get into sneak attack opportunities. But this is just my opinion.

A scout with a decent Tumble can keep moving backwards and shooting in a narrow tunnel doing tons of damage. They also gain blindsense at the mid levels. Further, they don't need a lot of room. You can literally Tumble around an opponent to gain a skirmish bonus. Or through them, if you're really fancy, or just take the AoO and do it anyway.

 

[Greg K]

Don't forget the wilderness rogue variant from UA

 

[pawsplay]

But, if you know that there won't be many opportunities to fight on the run or scout out ahead, you'll probably be hapier with the rogue.

In my campaign, the scout has gained a skirmish bonus virtually every round they were within 30 feet of an opponent. In my experience, skirmish is much more reliable than sneak attack.

 

[mcnathan80]

I agree, the scout is an often overlooked class. The key is mobility, with the right set of feats, a scout is almost impossible to pin down. I'm thinking dodge, mobility, prone fighting (complete warrior), and spring attack and your scout will never be caught. I will agree at earlier levels, a rogue can outshine a scout in damage potential, and with itteritive attacks they have an almost unlimited advantage to a scout, but to get sneak attack damage you need either: a) surprise, or b) another person which makes skirmish useful at any time in a battle whether alone, or in a group.
A side note: my wife ran a truely sick scout/rogue/order of the bow initiate. At level 12 she was rolling 3d8+4d6+6 with a flaming mighty composite longbow when her opponents were flatfooted, and she moved 10'. So long story short, the scout can hold its own against the rogue any day.

 

[Aus_Snow]

I typically find the rogue to be underpowered and the scout to be useful.

Sorry, I should've specified that the class is terrible in most ways *other* than power balance relative to most other base classes. In that single way, they might be OK-ish (from what I've seen and heard).

I have a strong dislike for it on other levels though.

Don't forget the wilderness rogue variant from UA

Yep, these are a *much* better alternative, in so many ways. It's also here for those who haven't seen it.

 

[Sejs]

What are the benefits of playing a Rogue over a Scout, or vice versa? In a general sense, is one better than the other? Are there specific situations in which one might be better than the other? I'm especially wondering - is there anything a Scout can do that a Rogue can't do?

You never get to go camping or learn to make wooden boxcars if you're a Boy Rogue.

 

[Prophet2b]

What kind of campaign are you planning on playing it in?

Actually, I'm the DM - asking for one of my players. The campaign will (likely) have one Rogue, two Scouts, a Warlock, and a Warforged fighter or something along those lines. I've posted this elsewhere, but they're going to be running their own bounty hunter business. Thus, who knows what's going to be coming at them. They'll probably find themselves in a pretty huge variety of situations.

Any tips on how to incorporate elements into the campaign that will insure the players get their fair share in using their characters' potentials? It's definitely going to be a different kind of campaign for me...

 

[Nonlethal Force]

A scout with a decent Tumble can keep moving backwards and shooting in a narrow tunnel doing tons of damage.

Sure, so long as the tunnel is straight and they have precise shot to avoid firing into a (hopeful) melee holding the enemies back from the scout. Granted, precise shot is not a must, but if you play in conjunction with a meat shield it is a must.* But not all underground passages are straight. I'll grant you that most are, but not all are. And a good DM will pick places that smart opponents will ambush the party so that if the scout moves too far they'll be around a corner. I'm just saying there can be issues. I'm not saying the scout is abd underground by any means!


*EDIT: Don't forget that in this instance the melee people will be providing soft cover, too.

They also gain blindsense at the mid levels.

I'll also agree with this. This is a nice boost.

You can literally Tumble around an opponent to gain a skirmish bonus. Or through them, if you're really fancy, or just take the AoO and do it anyway.

Much of this is also true, but it acknowledges that the scout will most-likely be entering melee soon, too. Scouts don't make as good of a melee combatant as they do a ranged combatant. They can be okay for short stints in a melee - especially if they bring friends. But too much time in a melee can squish a scout.