rogues vs fighters (Stand your ground!)

[(Psi)SeveredHead]

Are we allowed to use splatbooks or not?

I wouldn't allow Quicker than the Eye, Expert Tactician, etc. I'm also 99% sure that I would never allow a Ring of Blinking IMC. Why don't I just give the rogue a Ring of Improved Invisibility?

 

[hammymchamham]

Are we allowed to use splatbooks or not?

I wouldn't allow Quicker than the Eye, Expert Tactician, etc. I'm also 99% sure that I would never allow a Ring of Blinking IMC. Why don't I just give the rogue a Ring of Improved Invisibility?

Well, last time I checked, the Ring of Blinking is available to come up as random treasure, where as a Ring of IMproved Invisibility isn't. But, since we're in the rules forum and discussing the Fighters and Rogues, lets worry about whtas in the rules, not what we would or would not allow in our games. And last time I checked, the splat books are part of the rules (even if they are optional they get discussed here a lot) and rings (even rings of blinking0 are as well listed

 

[Creeperman]

It's worth noting that, barring reach, Haste, or similar effects, if you are in position to make a full attack on someone, they are in position to full attack you in return.

Thus, even though a rogue might find herself able to dish out a full round of sneak attacks, she might wish to reconsider if she's not certain said sneak attacks will drop her target. Depending on the circumstances, it might be better to try to keep up a hit-and-run style of attacks, such as if the fighter uses such tactics as tripping, or else is able to power attack against a (relatively) low AC.

Generally, however, a rogue is no combat match for a fighter in a one-on-one confrontation, assuming no Improved Invisibility.

 

[Storminator]

If the fighter can avoid being snaek attacked, he can nearly take on two rogues of his level. If he gets sneak attacked once, he should trounce the rogue. If the rogue can continue to get in sneak attacks, the fighter's in trouble.

For every clever combo one side comes up with, there is an equally clever counter. But the above should generally hold true.

PS

 

[mmu1]

Even if the Rogue could sneak attack with every attack, he wouldn't necessarily be ahead of the fighter despite what many people seem to think. For example:

A 10th level rogue with a +2 shortsword and 12 STR does, on average, 24 points of damage with a sneak attack. He has 18 Dex and a +2 bonus from a magical item for a total of 20, and uses Weapon Finesse.

A 10th level fighter with a +2 greatsword, 18STR, a +2 bonus from a magical item for a total of 20STR, Weapon Specialization, and 3 points of Power Attack (since his BAB is +10 to the Rogue's +7) will do an average of 21 points of damage with each attack - but it might simply be more advantagous to use his full BAB and the fact he'll land a lot more blows than the rogue...

Couple that with significantly higher hit points for the fighter, and things don't look so good for the rogue all of a sudden.

And this is also about as good as it's going to get for the rogue, because at most levels he'll have one fewer attack than a fighter.

 

[hong]

Generally, however, a rogue is no combat match for a fighter in a one-on-one confrontation, assuming no Improved Invisibility.

Even with improved invis, a rogue is no match for a fighter who expects to be fighting rogues a lot. The rogue's one trump card in combat is sneak attack, and armour of fortification negates that very nicely. Heck, fortification is almost a must-have even in the absence of enemy rogues: you don't want to take too many crits from some of those uber monsters....

Spring Attack doesn't help much, since it's countered by the tactic of readying until the attacker comes within reach, then whacking him.

A rogue is still a very useful and fun character, but not for one-on-one duels.

 

[Mustrum_Ridcully]

And nobody should undervalue the use of trips in combat, even without the appropriate feats. Hell, a single AOO, and the rogue might lie on the ground. Easier to hit, more difficult to get away (and still fighting with full attack)

Since Trip is only a touch attack, a fighter might only use his weakest attack. (Though against rogues, the Touch AC is usually a bit higher than against other opponents)

 

[Darklone]

Yeah. Trip usually kills your rogue.

Even without any relevant feats, a standard trip attack will waste most tactics a rogue could use against a fighter.

Another thing: I had some dwarven rogues in my groups (who later multiclassed to fighter though too) with high CON mods. They didn't lack hitpoints too much, had not such a high dex and were rather equal to fighters of similar level. But they were NOT equal.

 

[Michael Morris]

Allow Me to Point out a couple of things to the Rings of Blinking Fans

1) Blinking grants a two way concealment... Your own attacks suffer a 20% miss chance because of this...

2) You cannot sneak attack a foe with *ANY* concealment.

 

[Hypersmurf]

Re: Allow Me to Point out a couple of things to the Rings of Blinking Fans

1) Blinking grants a two way concealment... Your own attacks suffer a 20% miss chance because of this...

2) You cannot sneak attack a foe with *ANY* concealment.

Your 20% miss chance is not due to concealment. It's due to being on the wrong plane.

-Hyp.