rogues vs fighters (Stand your ground!)

[Methinkus]

Is there any way that a rogue with characteristicly low str. can hope to stand up to a fighter type in a fight? I heard talk of "Rogues better than fighters!?" threads in another thread on the Gen RPG Discusion board and i decided to try and resurect the issue.

How can you take advantage of all that sneak attack damage if the Mark is standing in front of you and ready to start swinging? is there any hope for the rogue or should he just up and run and hope that the other guys armour slows him down enough for you to escape?

 

[Crothian]

It really depends on the levels, but Spring attack is a good start.

 

[Sagan Darkside]

It really depends on the levels involved. (and if non-core rules are used.)

There might be a fair chance at low level- since it will come down to who gets luck with rolls there.

At higher levels- the rogue could try to rely on bluff and fight defensivly to try to get sneak attacks in while dodging attacks.

If enough crippling strikes get in, then the fighter may be in trouble.

I can't think of many magic item strategies that the fighter could not nullify with items.

But- in the end, the rogue should not be able to take a fighter in a straight up fight.

 

[hammymchamham]

ring of blinking. yeah their are ways to nullify that. but they sacrifice on other ways the rogue could attack, through scrolls or wands etc.

 

[Datt]

Like everyone says it all depends on the level. If the roque can qualify for Quicker than the Eye and Expert Tactician then he could effectively sneak attack the fighter twice a round. But you have to hope the fighter doesn't have big amounts of armor on and you can get through his AC. But I really don't think that a rogue stands a chance trying to go toe to toe with a fighter type.

 

[IceBear]

As others have stated it really depends on the circumstances. Most of these X vs Y scenarios are too contrived to be of any real use. I think what most people who say that rogues outperform fighters in combat mean is based on a party environment.

At higher levels, with multiple sneak attacks from flanking (for example) against a monster that can be sneak attacked, the rogue will probably do more damage per round than the fighter.

The question becomes - how long does the rogue live now that he has been identified as a serious threat compared to the fighter.

IceBear

 

[demon_jr]

I have to agree with everyone and say that this depends on the circumstances.

There are too many variables regarding feats, magical items, stats, etc.

However, if you could define what the average fighter and average rogue are, then you could probably try to determine from there.

Maybe if you took the NPCs from the DMG for Rogue and Fighter and then started from there.

 

[LokiDR]

If the rogue stands toe to toe with the fighter, the rogue should die. This says nothing with the number of magic items/feats either could have.

If the rogue had improved invis and the fighter couldn't counter it, the fighter is toast. If the fighter has armor of fortification, especially the +5 version, the rogue is in serious trouble. There are way too many variations.

Looking at iconic or NPC characters doesn't help either. Circumstances and stratagies play a huge role as well. I don't think that the idea of a one-on-one fight is very useful.

If you are trying to create a rogue-like character that can stand up in combat, here are a few suggestions:
ring of blinking: continous sneak attack
ring of invisibility: occasional sneak attack
duelist: the AC bonus fits well, as does psedo-sneak attack: precise strike
wands: in cases of fortification or uncritable creatures
darkness/blindsight: same use as ring of blinking, but harder to get
darkvision: don't stand toe to toe, sneak attack from 30' in the darkness

 

[hammymchamham]

As others have stated it really depends on the circumstances. Most of these X vs Y scenarios are too contrived to be of any real use. I think what most people who say that rogues outperform fighters in combat mean is based on a party environment.

At higher levels, with multiple sneak attacks from flanking (for example) against a monster that can be sneak attacked, the rogue will probably do more damage per round than the fighter.

The question becomes - how long does the rogue live now that he has been identified as a serious threat compared to the fighter.

IceBear

Just to throw it out, in our party, my rogue doesn't need to flank with the ring of blinking. And how long can he survive? his ac was higher than the fighters, and with the ring has a 50% chance of being missed by most attacks.

When the fighter was around, his AC was around 27 and mines 31. Currently we have a half dragon Paladin (AC 28) and mine is still 31 (will be enchanting more to my sheils when I can)

yes, he wouldn't survive as long as he does with the Paladin (and when the fighter was around).

This is a game about parties. I can really only think of 3 times a one on one battle should ocure.

Mage Duels
Psionic Battles
Iajutsi Battles

else it should be a party game.

But its all IMHO

 

[Hypersmurf]

Like everyone says it all depends on the level. If the roque can qualify for Quicker than the Eye and Expert Tactician then he could effectively sneak attack the fighter twice a round.

Quicker Than The Eye would only make one of those a Sneak Attack. The opponent would not be denied his Dex bonus against the extra attack from Expert Tactitian, so it would only be a normal melee attack.

-Hyp.