RPG Evolution: Do We Still Need "Race" in D&D?

The term "race" is a staple of fantasy that is now out of sync with modern usage. With Pathfinder shifting from "race" to "ancestry" in its latest edition, it raises the question: should fantasy games still use it? “Race” and Modern Parlance We previously discussed the challenges of representing real-life cultures in a fantasy world, with African and Asian countries being just two examples...

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The term "race" is a staple of fantasy that is now out of sync with modern usage. With Pathfinder shifting from "race" to "ancestry" in its latest edition, it raises the question: should fantasy games still use it?

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“Race” and Modern Parlance

We previously discussed the challenges of representing real-life cultures in a fantasy world, with African and Asian countries being just two examples. The discussion becomes more complicated with fantasy "races"—historically, race was believed to be determined by the geographic arrangement of populations. Fantasy gaming, which has its roots in fantasy literature, still uses the term “race” this way.

Co-creator of D&D Gary Gygax cited R.E. Howard's Conan series as an influence on D&D, which combines Lovecraftian elements with sword and sorcery. Howard's perceptions may have been a sign of the times he lived in, but it seems likely they influenced his stories. Robert B. Marks explains just how these stereotypes manifested in Conan's world:
The young, vibrant civilizations of the Hyborian Age, like Aquilonia and Nemedia, are white - the equivalent of Medieval Europe. Around them are older Asiatic civilizations like Stygia and Vendhya, ancient, decrepit, and living on borrowed time. To the northwest and the south are the barbarian lands - but only Asgard and Vanaheim are in any way Viking. The Black Kingdoms are filled with tribesmen evoking the early 20th century vision of darkest Africa, and the Cimmerians and Picts are a strange cross between the ancient Celts and Native Americans - and it is very clear that the barbarians and savages, and not any of the civilized people or races, will be the last ones standing.
Which leads us to the other major fantasy influence, author J.R.R. Tolkien. David M. Perry explains in an interview with Helen Young:
In Middle Earth, unlike reality, race is objectively real rather than socially constructed. There are species (elves, men, dwarves, etc.), but within those species there are races that conform to 19th-century race theory, in that their physical attributes (hair color, etc.) are associated with non-physical attributes that are both personal and cultural. There is also an explicit racial hierarchy which is, again, real in the world of the story.
The Angry GM elaborates on why race and culture were blended in Tolkien's works:
The thing is, in the Tolkienverse, at least, in the Lord of the Rings version of the Tolkienverse (because I can’t speak for what happened in the Cinnabon or whatever that other book was called), the races were all very insular and isolated. They didn’t deal with one another. Race and culture went hand in hand. If you were a wood elf, you were raised by wood elves and lived a thoroughly wood elf lifestyle until that whole One Ring issue made you hang out with humans and dwarves and halflings. That isolation was constantly thrust into the spotlight. Hell, it was a major issue in The Hobbit.
Given the prominence of race in fantasy, it's not surprising that D&D has continued the trend. That trend now seems out of sync with modern parlance; in 1951, the United Nations officially declared that the differences among humans were "insignificant in relation to the anthropological sameness among the peoples who are the human race."

“Race” and Game Design

Chris Van Dyke's essay on race back in 2008 explains how pervasive "race" is in D&D:
Anyone who has played D&D has spent a lot of time talking about race – “Racial Attributes,” “Racial Restrictions,” “Racial Bonuses.” Everyone knows that different races don’t get along – thanks to Tolkien, Dwarves and Elves tend to distrust each other, and even non-gamers know that Orcs and Goblins are, by their very nature, evil creatures. Race is one of the most important aspects of any fantasy role-playing game, and the belief that there are certain inherent genetic and social distinctions between different races is built into every level of most (if not all) Fantasy Role-Playing Games.
Racial characteristics in D&D have changed over time. Basic Dungeons & Dragons didn't distinguish between race and class for non-humans, such that one played a dwarf, elf, or halfling -- or a human fighter or cleric. The characteristics of race were so tightly intertwined that race and profession were considered one.

In Advanced Dungeons & Dragons, the changes became more nuanced, but not without some downsides on character advancement, particularly in allowing “demihumans” to multiclass but with level limits preventing them from exceeding humanity, who had unlimited potential (but could only dual-class).

With Fifth Edition, ability penalties and level caps have been removed, but racial bonuses and proficiencies still apply. The Angry GM explains why this is a problem:
In 5E, you choose a race and a class, but you also choose a background. And the background represents your formative education and socio-economic standing and all that other stuff that basically represents the environment in which you were raised. The racial abilities still haven’t changed even though there is now a really good place for “cultural racial abilities” to live. So, here’s where the oddity arises. An elf urchin will automatically be proficient with a longsword and longbow, two weapons that requires years of training to even become remotely talent with, but a human soldier does not get any automatic martial training. Obviously, in both cases, class will modify that. But in the life of your character, race happens first, then background, and only later on do you end up a member of a class. It’s very quirky.
Perhaps this is why Pathfinder decided to take a different approach to race by shifting to the term “ancestry”:
Beyond the narrative, there are many things that have changed, but mostly in the details of how the game works. You still pick a race, even though it is now called your ancestry. You still decide on your class—the rulebook includes all of the core classes from the First Edition Core Rulebook, plus the alchemist. You still select feats, but these now come from a greater variety of sources, such as your ancestry, your class, and your skills.
"Ancestry" is not just a replacement for the word “race.” It’s a fluid term that requires the player to make choices at character creation and as the character advances. This gives an opportunity to express human ethnicities in game terms, including half-elves and half-orcs, without forcing the “subrace” construct.

The Last Race

It seems likely that, from both a modern parlance and game design perspective, “race” as it is used today will fall out of favor in fantasy games. It’s just going to take time. Indigo Boock sums up the challenge:
Fantasy is a doubled edged sword. Every human culture has some form of fantasy, we all have some sort of immortal ethereal realm where our elven creatures dwell. There’s always this realm that transcends culture. Tolkien said, distinct from science fiction (which looks to the future), fantasy is to feel like one with the entire universe. Fantasy is real, deep human yearning. We look to it as escapism, whether we play D&D, or Skyrim, or you are like myself and write fantasy. There are unfortunately some old cultural tropes that need to be discarded, and it can be frustratingly slow to see those things phased out.
Here's hoping other role-playing games will follow Pathfinder's lead in how treats its fantasy people in future editions.
 

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Michael Tresca

Michael Tresca

Shasarak

Banned
Banned
Back on topic, in most fantasy worlds there are also Species-ists, as the hate between dwarves and elves seems baked into most settings. So unless you are going to rewrite every single fantasy setting to eliminate that, using species in place of race is not going to work either.

It always made sense to me that a mainly forest dwelling race like Elves would be diametrically opposed to a mainly underground dwelling race like Dwarves.
 

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BryonD

Hero
LOL.

The fact that not a single version of D&D is actually "completely compatible with modeling this" was the point that was disproved since your other point couldn't actually be proven at all.

Not one single version of the Medusa actually supported your claims. Not one. Yet, you still claim victory in the discussion? Wow. Now that's some serious revision there.
Heh, I'm not going to get dragged back into your age old battle-lost delusions.
I've been doing Medusa correct to the myth for decades. You are the one with the longstanding record of putting words in other people's mouths. Hell, I haven't engaged with you for what, a year? And you bring me up here with the specific point of telling other people what *I* said, when it isn't what I said. So I think any rational person who just registered today could read nothing but this brief exchange and readily see who is doing the revisions.

Enjoy
 

Lanefan

Victoria Rules
This is a radically different conception than the one that prevails in D&D. Most D&D campaigns I'm aware of don't care much about dynastic concerns like, "If my character is a half-elf and has a child with a human, what stat block should I use for my child."
We do. :)

Instead of half-elves we have part-elves, and stats etc. vary depending on how many 8ths elf (or orc) you are. Fine-tuning the mechanics beyond that becomes pointless, though being 1/32 elf could give you some room for flavour in your character.

And the child of a 4/8 elf and a human will be a 2/8 elf. The child of a 1/8 elf and a human becomes human for game mechanics purposes, but still has elf in its ancestry.

Lan-"to whoever it was in here who said 4e would appeal to old-schoolers: count that as a blown call"-efan
 

Arilyn

Hero
We do. :)

Instead of half-elves we have part-elves, and stats etc. vary depending on how many 8ths elf (or orc) you are. Fine-tuning the mechanics beyond that becomes pointless, though being 1/32 elf could give you some room for flavour in your character.

And the child of a 4/8 elf and a human will be a 2/8 elf. The child of a 1/8 elf and a human becomes human for game mechanics purposes, but still has elf in its ancestry.

Lan-"to whoever it was in here who said 4e would appeal to old-schoolers: count that as a blown call"-efan

Yeah, we do stuff like this too. Things like quarter elves and orcs. What is a child of a half- elf and half-orc like?
 

Afrodyte

Explorer
You clearly missed the part, right after I said that, where I said that that doesn't mean that white people cannot contribute to the conversation. And no, not all people of color have the exact same experiences; but most people of color have had enough experiences that are similar enough in nature that I do feel 100% in the assertion that you quoted. And white people we should definitely be contributing to the conversation. But yeah, I do think we could stand to listen more to the experiences and stories of people of color, to amplify their voices and, if nothing else, share that you believe them.

What's not helpful is calling a woman of color a racist for trying to gauge where people's lived experiences are at within the context of that conversation.

I've blocked this individual, so thankfully I didn't see them say this to me, but it's both comical and disheartening how often it happens that things I do to make sure I know who I'm talking to and not make assumptions about their life experience is twisted into this weird, malicious thing where people project all sorts of baggage onto me personally. So, I'm not a real person with real thoughts and real feelings sharing my own individual experiences and perspectives, but every strident anti-racist who said something mean about white men on the internet, which is a bit jarring coming from people who insist on such a staunchly individualistic understanding of social systems and consistently speak against making arguments in bad faith.

It's funny I get this response because, among the first posts I made to this thread, I specifically said it's not something I'm particularly bothered about. Wouldn't miss it if they changed it. Not stung if they keep it. I don't play D&D to dredge up trauma about race. I play to pretend to be cool, competent people having adventures. So, if there is a way we in the hobby can use our collective imagination to make dredging up that trauma less likely, fine. At the same time, all I've done is express some mild concern that people not affected by an issue deciding for people who are what should and should not upset or offend them and what should or should not sufficiently address their problems with, in this case, the current vocabulary. But, apparently, to some people, this means I'm outraged and ticked off and spoiling for a way to call innocent white men bad names like "racist" when, in fact, it is extremely rare for me to do so, except in the case of flat-out bigots.

All of this is highly ironic because several people have made it clear that they want to hear from people of color, but wading through dozens or hundreds of comments demanding that people of color validate our own life experience and our perspectives is exhausting at the best of times, meanwhile demanding that we take them at their word and assume the best of interpretations of their behavior. Not to mention how far too often, these conversations lead to people treating issues that affect people in real life like talking points in debate club. My ignore list has grown exponentially over the past few weeks because of this, and now I'm even wondering if it's even worth saying anything at all. I don't think I'm alone in this; I'm not that special. Unfortunately, this effectively silences people of color despite some people claiming that they want to know what we think and feel about things.
 
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arjomanes

Explorer
No. Get rid of it.

First Edition's "races" went a long way to creating the kitchen sink Mos Eisley Cantina we now see in D&D. Sure D&D was already half there with its LOTR knock-offs, but at least there was a dwarf, or an elf, or a hobbit, alongside the human cleric and magic-user. They were at least a little special.

You can be a human. Or you can be a monster. An inhuman, alien, monster. Call a spade a spade.

And while you're at it. Make the creature actually alien. No, elves aren't people with pointy ears. Orcs aren't people with tusks. It's offensive. Because it's boring. Look at the diversity between species of animals. Why can't we do a better job mirroring some of that diversity? China Mieville's Perdido Street Station and Embassytown imagined inhuman creatures in interesting ways that were more than just cosmetic. I'd like to see RPGs do a little better.

Make the elf more than a couple bonuses and some Halloween Express stick-on ears. When you do that, people can choose elf as their "class" or "theme," because it would define the entire thing.
 
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Lanefan

Victoria Rules
Yeah, we do stuff like this too. Things like quarter elves and orcs. What is a child of a half- elf and half-orc like?
Game mechanically? A mess. Socially? A bit of a disaster.

But, it'd be 1/4 elf, 1/4 orc and 1/2 human, for whatever you'd want to do with it.

Side note: the best (worst?) example of this came when a player of mine once rolled up what was originally going to be - I think - a part-elf. Problem was, after my tables and his dice got done messing things up it turned out both the human side and elf side had other things hiding in their backgrounds, leaving the resulting character a bit less than 2/3 human with significant bits of Elf, Orc, Dryad and [a 5th one that I forget right now] all mixed in.

Yeah, that roll-up soon became an exercise in let's go to the pub for a beer. :)
 

Dannyalcatraz

Schmoderator
Staff member
Supporter
No. Get rid of it.

First Edition's "races" went a long way to creating the kitchen sink Mos Eisley Cantina we now see in D&D. Sure D&D was already half there with its LOTR knock-offs, but at least there was a dwarf, or an elf, or a hobbit, alongside the human cleric and magic-user. They were at least a little special.

You can be a human. Or you can be a monster. An inhuman, alien, monster. Call a spade a spade.

And while you're at it. Make the creature actually alien. No, elves aren't people with pointy ears. Orcs aren't people with tusks. It's offensive. Because it's boring. Look at the diversity between species of animals. Why can't we do a better job mirroring some of that diversity? China Mieville's Perdido Street Station and Embassytown imagined inhuman creatures in interesting ways that were more than just cosmetic. I'd like to see RPGs do a little better.

Make the elf more than a couple bonuses and some Halloween Express stick-on ears. When you do that, people can choose elf as their "class" or "theme," because it would define the entire thing.

Sounds like D&D isn’t the FRPG for you.
 


Celebrim

Legend
Yeah, we do stuff like this too. Things like quarter elves and orcs. What is a child of a half- elf and half-orc like?

In my game, they'd be with 50% chance human with both the 'Elven Blood' and 'Goblin Blood' traits, 25% Half-Elf with the 'Goblin Blood' trait, and 25% half-goblin with the 'Elven Blood' trait. (No actual orcs in my game, but the idea is the same.)
 

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