Rule expert help with monkey grip

[The_Spider]

Im looking for someone knowledgable about the rules to address all my questions.

My player want to know if monkey grip, a feat in the complete warriors book would allow his dwarf to wield two great axes, one in each hand. He insists that according to the first part of the benefit he can wield a great axe in either hand. The last line is where the confusion lies. I rule it as meaning no you can not. He says a larger weapon is considered a medium weapon for him so he could wield one in his off hand. Take a look, im in need of some support either way to end this argument.

Here is the unwieldy description of the benefits

1.)You can use melee weapons one size category larger than you are with a -2 to the attack roll.
Simple enough
2.)You can wield a larger light weapon as a light weapon.
I take this to mean, for instance an ogre size light weapon like a medium size warax for example could be wielded in one hand and would count as a light weapon.
3.)or you can wield a larger two handed weapon in two hands.
I take this to mean for instance a weapon that is a large weapon for a large creature. For instance a ogre's great axe. 2d12 damage.
4.)You can not wield a larger weapon in your off hand or a larger double weapon at all.
I take this to mean he cant use the great ax in his off hand.

Does anyone see anything wrong from a realistic point of view with a dwarf wielding 2 great axes one in each hand?, or even just 1 in one hand as the feat allows?, how about a human fighting two weapon style with greatswords? Im considering not allowing this feat at all, or maybe leaving it alone and adding a strength prerequisite of maybe 21 does that sound about right? An ogre the weakest creature that wields one is strength 21 and the weapon is not oversized for him to swing with one hand. The prereq. is base attack +1 as written in the complete warrior.

Many thanks to those helpful who respond to my post.

 

[Doomhawk]

Firstly, monkey grip doesn't allow him to wield a greataxe one-handed. It lets him wield a Large battleaxe one-handed, which is essentially the same thing, but it means that (for instance) he can't take the greataxe off the Orc chieftain and use it one-handed, since that's a Medium greataxe and not a Large battleaxe. Your interpretation of 2) is wrong, it doesn't mean you can count a Medium waraxe as a light weapon, it means you can count a Large throwing axe (a light weapon for a Large creature) as a light weapon, whereas normally it would be a one-handed weapon for a medium character.

To answer your question, no, he can't wield two greataxes. He can't wield a greataxe single-handed at all (see above). He can't wield two Large battleaxes, either, since that directly violates 4) above. The feat must be taken as a whole, he cannot choose to ignore a part of it, or say that it does not apply because another part of the feat allows him to, since the feat itself also tells him that he can't.

 

[Sejs]

Does anyone see anything wrong from a realistic point of view with a dwarf wielding 2 great axes one in each hand?, or even just 1 in one hand as the feat allows?, how about a human fighting two weapon style with greatswords?

It says that you cannot use a larger weapon in your off hand, so no dual-greataxes or greatswords.


As for realism? It'd D&D. It's fantasy. 60' long, flying, fire-breathing lizards. Skinny nerds who can warp reality because they know how to fiddle with the code. The dead rising to walk again. Realism doesn't really enter the picture all that often, so I wouldn't worry too much about it. And besides, someone who has spent a significant portion of their life training being able to wield a bigger weapon than normal, albeit with some difficulty, is a heck of a lot more realistic than say... dragons.

 

[Maldur]

I was under the impression that Monkey grip lets you use a weapon, one size larger than normal.

So I could wield a Large rapier, or a large flail normally.
I dont think it says you can wield a large weapon one handed if that weapon was not one handed to begin with. But I need to check this when I get home, as I dont have the book here.

Be adviced that Monkey grip did change in the transition from "Sword and fist" to "complete warrior"

 

[The_Spider]

wouldnt a dwarven waraxe be a light weapon for a size large creature and thus be considered a light weapon for characters with this feat?

 

[Magesmiley]

What monkey grip essentially does is let you do is wield a weapon one size category larger as if it were a weapon of your size for 'handage' purposes.

So, a medium dwarven waraxe is a one-handed weapon for a dwarf (or any medium creature with the exotic weapon proficiency) and a two-handed weapon for other medium creatures. The greataxe is two-handed for all medium creatures still.

A large dwarven waraxe is normally a two-handed weapon for a dwarf (or any medium creature with the exotic weapon proficiency) and can't be wielded by other medium creatures. A large greataxe likewise can't be wielded by any medium creature normally.

Monkey Grip has no effect on wielding weapons of your size (or smaller). So, even with Monkey Grip, a medium dwarven waraxe is still a one-handed weapon for a dwarf (or any medium creature with the exotic weapon proficiency) and still a two-handed weapon for other medium creatures. The greataxe is likewise still a two-handed for all medium creatures.

However, when working with weapons one size larger than the wielder, Monkey Grip helps. If the character has monkey grip, a large dwarven waraxe is a one-handed weapon for a dwarf (or any medium creature with the exotic weapon proficiency) and a two-handed weapon for other medium creatures. A large greataxe in these cases is a two-handed weapon still.

Hope this is clear.

 

[reiella]

wouldnt a dwarven waraxe be a light weapon for a size large creature and thus be considered a light weapon for characters with this feat?

In 3.0, yes. In 3.5, no.

 

[Hypersmurf]

In 3.0, yes.

In 3.0, no.

Sword and Fist Monkey Grip let you wield a weapon one size category larger than you in one hand.

In 3E, a greatsword was a Large weapon - one size category larger than a Medium creature, so with Monkey Grip: Greatsword, a Medium creature could wield a greatsword in one hand.

A dwarven waraxe was a Medium weapon, so Monkey Grip does not apply to it for a Medium character.

-Hyp.

 

[Mephistopheles]

As has already been covered dual wielding two greataxes of any size wouldn't be possible with Monkey Grip, but I believe it would allow you to dual wield two large battle axes or dwarven waraxes (one-handed grip). Assuming he has Two-Weapon Fighting that would end up being -6 on both primary and off hands and damage of 2d6 with the large battleaxes or 2d8 with the large dwarven waraxes.

Edit: Hmm, nevermind, just reread it and caught the last line. The best he could do would be a large variety in the primary and a medium variety in the off-hand.

 

[reiella]

In 3.0, no.

Sword and Fist Monkey Grip let you wield a weapon one size category larger than you in one hand.

In 3E, a greatsword was a Large weapon - one size category larger than a Medium creature, so with Monkey Grip: Greatsword, a Medium creature could wield a greatsword in one hand.

A dwarven waraxe was a Medium weapon, so Monkey Grip does not apply to it for a Medium character.

-Hyp.

Gah ya, I gave a half-answer.

You're right . However, the medium Dwarven Waraxe would be considered 'light' for the Large creature, neh?