Pathfinder 1E Rules Rules Rules! >:(

[Mr.E_Danger]

People have said that bad players don't change, and while i agree with that, it could be that he doesn't realize how distracting he's being. I wouldn't just kick him out now, instead do give him a chance to change or start making changes.

Step 1. talk to the player and tell him you're the GM, so you make the call on rules. like others have said, if he wants to discuss the rule issue after playing, great. While everyone is at the table ready to go, that is not the time. Step 2. Talk to him about his play style and how it is affecting the game. the GM and the players need to have fun, and if anyone is not, then it's time to see what needs to change. Step 3, discretely ask the other players their opinions. It may be something to send individually to all players via email, rather than asking them all together at the table. If everyone is in agreement that this guy is wrecking the fun, then it is probably time to say goodbye.

 

[CAFRedblade]

Suggest to him to try his hand at DM'ing. He has all sorts of ideas to try out, he can do so as a DM for the rest of the group. Of course you may want to detail the level of expectations for character creation, if as a DM he's munchkining his NPC's the regular party may need to highly specialize themselves to keep an even footing.

You may need to realize he's either not a good fit for the group, an rely less on his character involvement with the story. Or take a different tack and bring his current character into more focus, challenge the player at every opportunity to keep his mind on the task at hand.

 

[Rakusia]

rules lawyers can make good dm's although if hes more of the mathematical player he may not have creativity. imho there arent bad players just bad dm's and lazy players. redirect his focus. and hey for one night at least youll get to play instead of dm

 

[Jeff Carlsen]

important part bolded. i don't understand this philosophy. why make someone change their fun? because he doesn't care about his character he doesnt deserve a good game?

there are two issues here. his play style, and his arguing/looking up monster stats. his play style isn't a problem. if you don't agree with it that's okay but looking at it mathematically isn't a reason to make him leave the group. just look at the second gamers movie. if he contributes to the game and his play style doesn't cause problems why try to make him change? at any table there should be room for many play styles

his arguing and stat look ups are a different monster altogether

There is nothing wrong with his play style by itself. But it is expected that the players adapt to to the intended style of a given campaign.

I'm not saying to be inflexible about it. In fact, it's invaluable to understand that different players like different things. But the DM already does a lot of work to try to make the game enjoyable to his or her players. The bigger onus is upon the individual player to adapt to the expectations of the table.

This topic is entirely about a player who is causing problems, and how to handle that. So, my answer remains. Talk to them. They will then either adapt to the table, which means everyone has fun, or leave because they aren't having fun, which is unfortunate, but better for both the group and the individual.

 

[tangleknot]

If this player is a friend and you really want him to play in your group then talk to him, let him know your expectations, frustrations, and your DM style. If you both can't come up with a compromise than either deal with it, or kick him out of the game. There are plenty of gaming groups out there that play to his rule stringent munchkin ways, he shouldn't have any trouble finding a group.

 

[harikus]

The last game I DMed, we had 5 people. I wanted to play a character so I just made a tank. Nothing fancy. One of the regulars is this sort of player. How we got him into the story is by engaging him personally. He ended up not being the problem.
The people being the problem were two of the others who barely read the material at all. Didn't update on leveling up. And expected me to carry them. One was a druid, the other was a wizard. Our high powered campaign turned into crap, and the wizard was forced to be a ranger because he was to lazy about learning his spells.
It can be a lot lot worse. I would just engage him man. If he is making it suck for everyone else. Stop letting him know when the meetings are and let him know why if he wants to know. Just don't be a jerk about it, he might want to change if you are nice about it.

 

[ggeilman]

You are playing in a game you are DMing? And two of the players are not leveling their characters and depending on the DM played character to carry the game? Very, very strange. Does not sound like some serious players.

 

[harikus]

What I meant by carrying them is I guess they were expecting me to do all there paper work. My guy worked more as a front line basic fighter with a shield. The rest of the people were cool, the other two were mentally lazy. We actually ended up booting them. The warlock basically had been harassed constantly via roleplay by the druid, so he decided to brutally execute him while the rest watched. We looted his corpse and split the gold. The other lazy player that we made become a ranger, well, I basically created a demilich that required one person be sacrificed in order for the rest of us to pass. He shot an arrow at it (because he was to stupid to read up about how insanely powerful they are), the rest of us just backed up and pointed and said "take him". The Demlich was basically a giant jeweled floating pelvis. Let's just say; this inspired my Demilich idea. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RAUfJi8ijCo lolol

 

[Gfreak2x9]

If this player is a friend and you really want him to play in your group then talk to him, let him know your expectations, frustrations, and your DM style.

I have done this, and had no success! Before I upset someone let me first say if you like WOW I mean NO DISRESPECT to the game or its story. Reread that if you need to! NO DISRESPECT. This player comes from a WOW background, and (as I have said) only sees things as deep as "So this is our Tank, this is our healer, and this is our ranged guy!" Thats fine in combat, but outside of combat the character is a CHARACTER! Not "Just a tank". He is a barbarian warrior on a mission to avenge his fallen tribe, questing onward searching for those who took his parent's from him! He loves strong ale, and busty blonde women! His favorite meal is mutton and carrots! He follows Gorum faithfully and enjoys arm-wrestling! Hes a hard ass to everyone but little does everyone know every year on the anniversary of his parent's death he seeks solitude so that he may grieve for his mother and father without shame! SEE! THAT Is a character! I made that up JUST NOW and my Tank has more personality than his! Many have made valid point that you don't need to be obsessed with your character, but you can still try to care a little!

 

[Savage Wombat]

Does anyone else feel like this problem player sounds a little bit Aspergers-y? He might have a serious emotional problem with having his math messed up.

Anyway, I agree with the position that it's a case of incompatible gaming styles more than anyone being wrong. He probably needs a different game group.