Rulings on Ray of enfeeblement

[SlagMortar]

I didn't bring up the collossal scorpion. It was brought up by Stalker0 because it has a touch AC of 1. My point is that large things with very low touch AC often have other advantages.

 

[Stalker0]

Large creatures have other advantages. The fire giant with its improved overrun feet and +18 modifier (or +13 after an average ray of enfeeblement opposed by strength check) could just run over the fighter and go after the wizard. A collossal scorpion could just grab the fighter with improved grab and kill him that way.

Edit: By the way, the CR 12 collossal scorpion before ray of enfeeblement has a +34 to hit with its claws and a +58 grapple check and +29 to hit with its sting which does 1d10 constitution damage with a fortitude save DC of 33. After an average ray of enfeeblement that is still +29 to hit with claws, +53 grapple check and +24 sting. Good luck telling your fighter to go defeat it with no more help after casting ray of enfeeblement on it.

My point in showing this is that as CRs go up, touch ACs don't but will saves do. However, the flip side to that is many monsters will be less inconvienced by ROE. Perhaps that is the balance of the spell in this case.

 

[Diirk]

At higher levels I'd be much more likely to open with with slow than RoE (except maybe against outsiders and dragons, depending on quantities).

Not only does slow negate all but the primary attack, it can negate ALL attacks if you move around a bit. And its multi target too. And its only a 3rd level spell, which at the higher levels, is just as much chump change as a 1st level is.

 

[Felix]

For most meelers that PCs will face, Ray of Enfeeblement is a "we win" button. Again, I already did the math on this.

What you left out in your math was that while one fighter had a wizard ally casting an effectively maximized* Ray of Enfeeblement, the other fighter did not have a wizard ally casting a similar spell to aid him.

So let's see what 4th level and lower spells we can find to even the fight out.

Furthermore, let's name them:

Andy the Tank and Billy the Wizard.
Yos the Fighter and Zed the Sorcerer.

Billy casts a [Maximized] Ray of Enfeeblement on Yos. What can Zed cast on Andy to even the playing field?

Enervation
Greater Invisibility
Displacement
Resilient Sphere
Scorching Ray
Confusion
Hold Person
Tasha's Hideous Laughter
Summon Monster IV [Celestial Lion, Fiendish Dire Wolf]
Summon Monster III [Fiendish Ape, Fiendish Constrictor]
Stoneskin
Dispel Magic

Each one of these spells is equivalent in level to the effect you applied to Yos. And as a fighter, I would rather have my arcane backup cast any one of these spells than cast a Ray of Enfeeblement.

Yes, Grog, you did "math", but if you're going to allow one side to have a certian level of firepower, you must allow the other side it as well to determine if it's overpowered. You might as well say that a +3 Sword is overpowered because when you fight opponents that don't have one you have a "we win" button.

*It is not quite a [Maximized] Ray of Enfeeblement, but after assuming that the ray hit (after they are engaged in melee), and assuming that the wizard will roll a 5 or higher, I get to strech this a litte. And if what you applied is not quite a +3 spell level adjustment, about half of the spells listed are 3rd and not 4th level spells.