D&D 4E Running Commentary on Rel's 4e Campaign (Complete 8/2/10)

[Rel]

What was this? A rules ritual? Just a good religion/arcana roll?

It's a ritual called Undead Ward (I think. I'm not looking at it right now.). I got it off the Compendium a while back but I don't recall the original source.

Also, what rules are you using for stunting? I imagine it's beyond page 42; it seems like you give certain benefits for badass stunting. But I didn't see those rules in "How I fixed 4e".

Hmm, I thought it was in there. But no problem to repeat it here since it is short and sweet: "You may spend an Action Point + Healing Surge to do something cool that fits your character concept but isn't covered by one of your powers."

As a rough guideline I try to let stuff like this approximate the power level of an Encounter power. But that is somewhat flexible and I don't worry about it much either way. I'd say that about 60% of their action points get spent on Stunts vs. simply taking the extra action.

I am behind on updating this thread so I'll see if I can get a post up later today.

 

[vagabundo]

It's a ritual called Undead Ward (I think. I'm not looking at it right now.). I got it off the Compendium a while back but I don't recall the original source.

Tiz from Open Grave, to-be-sure...

 

[Rechan]

Hmm, I thought it was in there. But no problem to repeat it here since it is short and sweet: "You may spend an Action Point + Healing Surge to do something cool that fits your character concept but isn't covered by one of your powers."

The only thing in there in terms of THIS was: "Action point + Daily to do something super cool" like collapse a cave/lift a great boulder/animate a statue. The healing surges is news to me.

On the topic of action points and such, how often are your PCs hitting your altered milestones, compared to the Milestone per 2 combats rule?

 

[Rel]

The only thing in there in terms of THIS was: "Action point + Daily to do something super cool" like collapse a cave/lift a great boulder/animate a statue. The healing surges is news to me.

On the topic of action points and such, how often are your PCs hitting your altered milestones, compared to the Milestone per 2 combats rule?

After some consideration and a single session of playtesting I determined that Action Point + Daily was way too expensive if I wanted the stunts to see much use. I think this was mentioned further down that thread but I should go edit the OP.

My version of milestones haven't really been called that through most of the campaign. The awarding of additional action points is done mostly for quest completion. I try and come up with (and encourage the players to come up with) new "quests" or "goals" all the time and it seems to work pretty well. On average they hit one per session I'd say. Sometimes I have some sort of pivotal thing crop up in a fight, the resolution of which gets everybody an action point.

One thing I've modified a bit since we're doing things this way is what happens to Action Points after an Extended Rest. They are supposed to reset to 1. But I've discovered that they frequently have a big, important battle that they have worked toward (and which resolves a quest) right before they take an Extended Rest. So the Action Point for the quest would be effectively lost.

In cases like that they sometimes use the extra AP's to get rid of Wounds suffered in such battles. But if not then I will let them retain the bonus AP into the next adventuring day. It doesn't appear to imbalance anything.

 

[Rel]

The PC's scrambled out of their bedrolls as Astavian took a guard position between them and the bugbears. The Human Wizard raised his staff and a bolt of lightning shot toward the Paladin. As it struck him he realized that it was not merely a bolt but in fact a serpent. It coiled around him and continued to deliver jolts of electricity through his armor.

Eshik leapt to defend against the Guardian, now unwillingly bent on their destruction. Mialain and Zanne scrambled back from the stone beast trying to aid both Astavian and Eshik. The Bugbears charged in amongst them and added to their troubles and things were looking bleak.

The Guardian was dealing bone-crushing bites to Eshik and they all knew that he wouldn't last long. Astavian knocked aside one of the Bugbears and ran right at the Human Wizard. The Wizard disengaged, giving ground as he retreated further back the hallway leading into the Hearth. The Elven Wizard and the Bugbears continued to be the hammer against the anvil that was the Guardian.

But Zanne was dealing brutal damage to multiple Bugbears at once with her spells and Mialain was keeping them all on their feet for a few moments. Eshik, seeing that he stood little chance against the Guardain began focusing his attacks on the Bugbears. One by one they began to fall. As they did so the PC's noted the bulky sacks they were carrying which hit the stone floor with an audible "thud!". The Elven Wizard began to slowly retreat up the stairs to the Promenade, continuing to rain lightning bolts down among the PC's.

Then Eshik fell to a blow from behind by the Guardian. Zanne finished the last of the Bugbears and turned to see Mialain use some of her Healing magic on Eshik only an instant before the Guardian knocked her to the ground as well. Zanne fired a parting shot at the Elven Wizard who suddenly teleported away and then the stone behemoth struck her down as well.

Back inside the corridor the Wizard continued to retreat against the relentless assault of Astavian. They finally emerged on a balcony above the Hearth proper: A huge, conical room with a bubbling pit of lava at the base where the various implements for working metal were kept. The Paladin dealt him a tremendous blow with his greatsword that left the mage barely standing. He gave ground and unleashed another feeble spell but the Paladin of Ryukaar would not be denied his vengeance. The final blow fell.

Astavian quickly stooped to grab the stone scepter that controlled the guardian and dashed back to help his friends. But he was met in the hallway by the bounding form of the Guardian, coming to destroy him as well.

"STOP!" commanded Astavian.

And so the Guardian did.

They stood looking at one another for an instant before Astavian heard Eshik's cry, "HELP!" The Paladin raced back out of the tunnel to find Eshik frantically trying to give medical aid to the fallen women. A few tense moments passed before they could be stabilized and both clinged to life by the most narrow of margins.

Astavian gripped the lion-head scepter and spoke to the Guardian once more. "Guard us as we rest," he commanded. The Guardian replied, "I shall."

Several hours later they were battered and bruised but in good enough shape to examine what the Bugbears carried in their sacks and also to peer inside the Hearth to see what wonders it might hold. The sacks held some stone tablets written in dwarven runes as well as a brilliant silver bust of a dwarf. Zanne performed a quick ritual to comprehend that language and was able to make some sense of things.

The stone tablets were magically charged writings holding pre-cataclysm spells. She couldn't begin to guess how they were written but felt that she might be able to tap into their magic if need be.

Then she examined the bust and read the inscription around the base. It said, "For Galron Silverbeard: Your craftsmanship will not be forgotten." As she read the inscription aloud the statue began to speak. She listened intently as it carefully explained the precise steps required to perform increasingly complex enchantments to magical weapons and armor. And...the secret of working adamantite...

*******

So the fight with the Wizards/Bugbears/Guardian was pretty nasty. But the players handled it just as they should have. They worked on the weaker targets (the Bugbears) while somebody went right after that Wizard and his scepter that had turned the Guardian against them. Once the PC's starting falling it got ugly in a hurry though. Mialain was ONE death save away when Astavian got to her with his Lay on Hands. Zanne had only failed one by the time the newly awakened Mialain could use her Heal skill to stabilize her (Zanne had ZERO healing surges left).

They were all angry that the Elf had escaped during the fight and they actually sent the Guardian after him but the stone lion tracked him to a door that he probably teleported through and could follow no further.

And then came the part where they found the secret of adamantite...and I totally botched this.

So basically I announced it to the group and then started the debate. Astavian and Eshik felt that they should destroy the bust (presumably by throwing it in the lava) because they worried that a dragonslaying weapon (which appears to be a property of all adamantite in my world) might be somehow turned into a dragonBORNslaying weapoin. Further, Eshik felt that any weapon designed specifically to slay the majestic dragons was a bad thing.

Zanne on the other hand felt that there was a lot that could be learned from the bust, which clearly contained several rituals for enchanting various magic items. She also felt it should be returned to the dwarves, who had shown no interest in fighting either dragons or dragonborn, since it was the main thing they had come down here for. (Mialain wasn't in on the initial debate because she had to miss this session but she would eventually side with Zanne for similar reasons)

Now normally this is something I'd chalk up to just a friendly debate between players. But the problem was that I knew this conflict was brewing for a long time. The dragonborn players had pretty well broadcast the fact that they weren't so sure they wanted anybody having that technology in their hands. And Zanne had already picked up on that and was worried that they might try and stop it from getting back to the dwarves.

Where I screwed things up was the fact that a few weeks earlier Zanne's player had sent me a private note containing several bits of info, including the fact that she wanted to be wary of any chance that the dragonborn might take to destroy or hide the secret of adamantite. And then, when she was the only person in the party who could understand what the bust was saying (since it spoke in dwarven) I unthinkingly blurted out to the whole group what was contained therein.

Anyway, over the course of the next week there was much e-mail traffic and discussion about how they should handle this and who cared more about what and who would back down. But in the end it was decided that, since Zanne should have kept that bit of information to herself, we would retcon things back to how they would have unfolded if she hadn't shared with the dragonborn the fact that the bust held the secret of working adamantite.

Lesson learned: Pay attention to the information your players send you and read over it again once in a while so you don't forget stuff!

 

[Rechan]

I havn't seen Astavian's Divine Challenge pop up much in the text. I hope he uses it muchly.

Also, yay secrets kept from the other PCs.

Edit: Just read through the entire thread. Wow! Great read. Loved Blackbreather.

One thing I noticed is when you talk about the two dragonborn and their breathweapons. However Eshik's breath weapon is poison. Undead are immune to poison. Have you takent his into account, in those scenes, or just dismiss it, or does he just not use it in those battles?

As an aside, I should say that I appreciate this thread for both the story hour element and the rules element. Rel's Houserules helped me codify a few things for my next campaign, if I take it in the High & Epic Fantasy direction. I also like some of the very Fantasy elements, of the the Glass Book and its effects on Steelslicer (and the Paladin's sword), loved the Tree, and other little elements (like handling exposition in Email/Handout form).

 

[meomwt]

As I've been reading this thread, I thought it only manners to pop in and say hello.

"Hello!"

I'm not a 4E player (3.5E grognard right here, T-shirt and all ), but I thought I'd take a look and see what story elements I could steal while I'm at it.

Wow.

There's been some lovely stuff, great battles, cinematic situations, wonderful role-playing and nice touches with the rules. Love it. I like the monster re-skinning ideas, I'm doing a few little similar touches in the 3.5E campaign I'm trying to write up ATM (gotta love MonsterForge, takes a whole bunch of effort out of touching up the bad guys).

Couple of quick questions: have any of the other PC's Quests come into play yet (other than the one Zanne had to meet the guy who brought her back to life)? And how much meta-plotting have you done to "configure" the places, people and mysteries which the PC's are encountering.

 

[Rel]

I havn't seen Astavian's Divine Challenge pop up much in the text. I hope he uses it muchly.

One thing I noticed is when you talk about the two dragonborn and their breathweapons. However Eshik's breath weapon is poison. Undead are immune to poison. Have you takent his into account, in those scenes, or just dismiss it, or does he just not use it in those battles?

Astavian does use his Divine Challenge. It's not quite as frequent as I'd have suspected. I think that this is due in part to some of his Minor actions being spoken for by Dragon Breath and other uses of Channel Divinity sometimes. But he does use it and it is effective (at both drawing attacks and inflicting damage when enemies ignore it).

I think that Astavian does a great job as a Defender mainly because he understands that that's his role and is never afraid to "go right at em'". Also his mobility on the battlefield is usually excellent because he is fine taking Opportunity Attacks (he's got a very good AC, nice Hit Points, tons of Healing Surges and an excellent Cleric backing him up) and also he's well geared to make Charge attacks thanks to his Horned Helmet.

Eshik's poison breath has probably been used inappropriately a few times vs. foes that should be immune. But it's not that big a deal and it's hardly among the larger of my rules gaffs. I know we've done it right at least a couple times because I recall looking at him when he was announcing his damage and saying, "And...they are immune to Poison."

Couple of quick questions: have any of the other PC's Quests come into play yet (other than the one Zanne had to meet the guy who brought her back to life)? And how much meta-plotting have you done to "configure" the places, people and mysteries which the PC's are encountering.

Thanks for reading and taking the time to comment!

There have been a wide variety of quests. Many small. A few large. Mialain returning the Glass Book of Light to the Tree and Astavian confronting Blackbreather were a couple biggies. Mialain is still seeking her missing brother. Eshik has sought out some lost relics of the old Dragonborn Empire (found among the undead Dragonborn in the River Hall). Zanne continues to try and cement alliances for the Empire of Vond with the brewing tensions with the Arcanon Confederacy.

Beyond that I'm not sure exactly what you mean about the "meta-plotting". If you mean whether I'm putting places and adventures in their path purely because it fits with their backstory and goals then I'd say that I am but only to a very limited extent. These players have done an excellent job of creating plot hooks for themselves that are solid but also flexible. These are things that they desire but don't have to happen in only one place or under a specific set of circumstances. If you mean something apart from that then I'll try and answer if you can explain a bit more.

Anyway, thanks again for reading and the comments. It helps me to answer these questions because I only have a limited perspective on things.

 

[vagabundo]

Just like to say that I always keep and eye out for this thread - and PCats and LostSouls game commentaries. I always find a little something to add to my own games.

I've just announced a Do Something Cool house rule, based on your Action point + healing surge mechanic.

I have not used minor quests in my game at all and I don't give out XP to the players - I keep a rough idea based on encounters and story, but your minor quests really seem to add to the game. Since there is no XP incentive for the PCs, I'll have to put my thinking cap on.

 

[Rechan]

I am looking for some clarification on your Power Stunt rules, Rel.