Mustrum_Ridcully
Hero
A minor quest could come with the hint of treasures and similar rewards?
(Titles, Support, Ally, Information, Romance)
D&D 4E Running Commentary on Rel's 4e Campaign (Complete 8/2/10)
- Thread starter Rel
- Start date
(Titles, Support, Ally, Information, Romance)
meomwt
First Post
I think what I was really asking was:
- Did you have an idea of the "story" you wanted to tell at the start of the campaign?
- Did you link specific parts of that story to specific places? - and you've already said No to that one
- Do you have a particular set of places that you want the PC's to visit or are they virtually free to go where they will?
From where I'm sitting and reading, it seems like a lot of work has gone into the plot and back-story already, I just wondered how much had been made up in advance of starting the campaign and how much the night before a session
vagabundo
Adventurer
Thanks for the suggestions.
I think I'll have to get my PCs to expand on their characters backstories for this to be effective. I've been using a weekly gmail Story Hour to summarise the game and fill out PC back stories myself: it has really worked well and maybe I need to up that and get them more involved in their own characters.
I think without some player involvement in their own characters history it would be difficult to hook them on a minor/personal quest.
Rel
Liquid Awesome
As far as incentives for minor quests, again, I award Action Points for them (to the entire group, not just one player, since achieving them is a group effort even if it is most meaningful to a single PC). But really no such incentive is required. This is stuff that the PC's wish to accomplish and they'd do it for "free". I give out the Action Points because I like to see PC's get to do amazing things especially when they've just accomplished some kind of goal.
When Inigo Montoya finally accomplishes his lifelong pursuit of Count Rugen, he turns almost certain defeat into roaring triumph. That's the kind of stuff I want to facilitate.
Thanks to your question and that example I just had an idea I might try. Based on certain very important quests I might consider handing out Action Points with a bonus on them. So for example if you did accomplish a lifelong goal then I'd give you a +5 Action Point. Anything you do with that point gets a +5 bonus to success. Lower bonuses would be attached to achievements of lesser significance. Hmm...I'll have to mull that over but I think I may adopt that.
The answer is that an awful lot of what happens in my game is made up only a few hours before the session starts. The appearance to the contrary is a combination of a couple of things: I've become quite good at tying together different plot threads into a coherent whole AND I've become even better at picking the brains of some seriously talented plotters and planners. My online chats with Hobo and Nareau over at Circvs Maximvs produce some wickedly awesome ideas.
The typical manner in which I approach campaigns these days is the one I used this time as well. I come up with an idea for my first adventure or plot arc. In this case it was the mission to deliver (the fake) Lord Harrix and (the fake) Gift to King Klo of Opkhar. I knew that this would have them fall from the bridge to Opkhar into the river and then into and up through the Prison Mines of Pelor plateau. That's all I knew for sure. Everything since then has been fabricated no more than two or three sessions in advance.
My reasons for this approach are many. First, it's easy. I mean in the sense that I'm not working too hard up front writing material. I'm especially not writing material that might go unused because the players wanted to go in another direction. It's not that I abhor railroading (I always do it at the start of a campaign). It's just that I haven't even built the tracks until they commit to going that direction anyway.
This method is highly adaptable too. Different things may be important to different PC's at different points in the game. If I don't plan too far in advance then I remain flexible about addressing these things as they crop up.
But mainly I do it because it is the most fun for me. I like being surprised as much or more than the players do. So when the campaign takes twists and turns that I had not expected then that is tremendous fun for me.
All of that said, I don't run my games as a total sandbox. It would be silly to assert that I have no control or desire about what direction they go. But what direction I'd like to see them go is something that is revealed to me over time rather than pre-plotted from the beginning. And generally they go there much more from the carrot than they do from the stick.
When Inigo Montoya finally accomplishes his lifelong pursuit of Count Rugen, he turns almost certain defeat into roaring triumph. That's the kind of stuff I want to facilitate.
Thanks to your question and that example I just had an idea I might try. Based on certain very important quests I might consider handing out Action Points with a bonus on them. So for example if you did accomplish a lifelong goal then I'd give you a +5 Action Point. Anything you do with that point gets a +5 bonus to success. Lower bonuses would be attached to achievements of lesser significance. Hmm...I'll have to mull that over but I think I may adopt that.
I think what I was really asking was:
- Did you have an idea of the "story" you wanted to tell at the start of the campaign?
- Did you link specific parts of that story to specific places? - and you've already said No to that one
- Do you have a particular set of places that you want the PC's to visit or are they virtually free to go where they will?
From where I'm sitting and reading, it seems like a lot of work has gone into the plot and back-story already, I just wondered how much had been made up in advance of starting the campaign and how much the night before a session
The answer is that an awful lot of what happens in my game is made up only a few hours before the session starts. The appearance to the contrary is a combination of a couple of things: I've become quite good at tying together different plot threads into a coherent whole AND I've become even better at picking the brains of some seriously talented plotters and planners. My online chats with Hobo and Nareau over at Circvs Maximvs produce some wickedly awesome ideas.
The typical manner in which I approach campaigns these days is the one I used this time as well. I come up with an idea for my first adventure or plot arc. In this case it was the mission to deliver (the fake) Lord Harrix and (the fake) Gift to King Klo of Opkhar. I knew that this would have them fall from the bridge to Opkhar into the river and then into and up through the Prison Mines of Pelor plateau. That's all I knew for sure. Everything since then has been fabricated no more than two or three sessions in advance.
My reasons for this approach are many. First, it's easy. I mean in the sense that I'm not working too hard up front writing material. I'm especially not writing material that might go unused because the players wanted to go in another direction. It's not that I abhor railroading (I always do it at the start of a campaign). It's just that I haven't even built the tracks until they commit to going that direction anyway.
This method is highly adaptable too. Different things may be important to different PC's at different points in the game. If I don't plan too far in advance then I remain flexible about addressing these things as they crop up.
But mainly I do it because it is the most fun for me. I like being surprised as much or more than the players do. So when the campaign takes twists and turns that I had not expected then that is tremendous fun for me.
All of that said, I don't run my games as a total sandbox. It would be silly to assert that I have no control or desire about what direction they go. But what direction I'd like to see them go is something that is revealed to me over time rather than pre-plotted from the beginning. And generally they go there much more from the carrot than they do from the stick.
Rules question for you, Rel:
[sblock]With regards to your skill rolling system. As I understand it, the breakdown of the bonuses are like this:
Untrained: 3d6
Trained: 4d6
Skill Focus: 5d6
Bonus:
Ability Modifier.
1/2 level bonuses do not apply, due to DCs remaining the same proportion as PCs level.
My question: What about misc skill bonuses? Those granted by racial bonuses, familiars, backgrounds, etc? Do those add to the bonuses?[/sblock]
[sblock]With regards to your skill rolling system. As I understand it, the breakdown of the bonuses are like this:
Untrained: 3d6
Trained: 4d6
Skill Focus: 5d6
Bonus:
Ability Modifier.
1/2 level bonuses do not apply, due to DCs remaining the same proportion as PCs level.
My question: What about misc skill bonuses? Those granted by racial bonuses, familiars, backgrounds, etc? Do those add to the bonuses?[/sblock]
Rel
Liquid Awesome
Yes.
Riggs
First Post
I havn't seen Astavian's Divine Challenge pop up much in the text. I hope he uses it muchly.
Essentially, Astavian would start with a Divine Challenge if there is a Minor Action to be had. Times this would not be the case is if I want to use a Dragon Breath first, or need the minor somewhy, or a target is unclear or unreachable by my turn. Other reasons you won't hear a lot about it is that all the foe has to do is not attack and nothing happens. If he's running, commanding mooks or talking trash, etc. then nothing.
Dragon Breath I tend to pick my spots since I get one shot. Any groups or minions or attempts to grab attention of new foes are good uses I like. Eshik's trinket that allows recharges is great and he throws out breath weapon attacks all the time. It is a bit unfortunate that some flavors of breath are more useful than others
Rel
Liquid Awesome
Thanks, Riggs.
So, what day do you guys play? I'm waiting anxiously for the next installment.
TONIGHT!
Although I'm a couple behind so there is more material to post. I've just had a very busy last several days. Rest of the week should provide me a bit of time to get caught up though.
Rel
Liquid Awesome
Before leaving the depths of Old Karak Tor, the PC's returned once more to the River Gate to study the strange "bubble" in the Mist. If there were some item buried there that repelled the corruption of the Mist then it would be extremely useful and valuable. After some examination and magical observation, it was determined that it was in fact the bones of the dead dragons that were keeping the Mist at bay.
Some experimentation showed that the Mist would not cling to any of the bones brought into it. Merely carrying a small piece of the bone was not enough to keep the Mist away from one of the adventurers but they guessed that a whole suit of armor fashioned from the stuff might provide considerable protection from the foul stuff. They gathered a few of the smaller bones to take with them for further study and entered back through the River Gate.
They bade their final farewell to The Guardian whose control scepter they cast into the lava pit. "You are free to go as you please now. What will you do now that you are no longer bound to this place?" asked Astavian. The Guardian replied with his rumbling voice, "I shall have to give it some thought. But you have my thanks." The PC's began their ascent back up the long, spiral avenue of Old Karak Tor.
They re-entered the ancient tailor's shop and climbed the hundred foot ladder back to the chamber where they had fought the spider. Her putrifying body was enough to quickly send them out of the room and they made their way out the central passage, up the stairs and through the broken front gates of Old Karak Tor out into the sunshine once more.
Suddenly they were beset from their flanks by two groups of Bugbears! As they recovered from this surprise they were met with another: The shadow of a sixty foot long boat hull loomed above them as an Eladrin Winged Ship came into view, archers gathered along the railing. They saw the Eladrin Mage they had done battle with at the Hearth Door standing in the prow. "You are all under arrest for the murder of agents of the Arcanon Confederacy, including a Guildmaster! Lay down your arms and surrender or you will be killed!"
The PC's of course had no intentions of surrendering. Quickly they dashed back into the relative safety of the passage from which they had just emerged where the Bugbears could only come at them a few at a time and the archers would be limited in their ability to shoot at them. All except Eshik. He reacted too slowly and his retreat was cut off by the eight Bugbears. He quickly withdrew to one of the walls of the courtyard where he at least had his back against something solid. Arrows trailing magical fire streaked at him from the deck of the ship above and left scorch marks on the wall around him as some of the Bugbears broke off from the press into the broken stone gates and moved in on the Dragonborn Ranger.
Meanwhile in the corridor Astavian was fighting three at a time and trying to keep Mialain and Zanne close behind him in order not to let the Bugbears slip past them. They had retreated a few steps back so that the Eladrin Archers could not fire upon them. "Where is Eshik?!" yelled Mialain over the din of the battle. But a moment later Zanne enveloped the entrance with the blackness of her Hunger of Hadar. Eshik was out of sight and on his own.
The seething darkness took a terrible toll on the Bugbear attackers and within a few moments most of them lay dead to it or Astavian's chisel tipped greatsword. The blackness abated and they pressed forward in the hopes that they could aid Eshik. They emerged to find the Ranger laying in a pool of blood and the Eladrin Ship hovering right inside the courtyard. Mialain broke from the entranceway and worked the magic of Melora to heal the fallen Dragonborn.
Above most of the Eladrin Archers had mysteriously vanished but the Wizard was nearby and blasting away with his lightning magic. Zanne set him afire with the Flames of Phlegethos. Astavian dashed forward and finished the Wizard with a smite from his sword. Suddenly there came a crashing, rending of timbers from overhead as the ship crashed into the stone face of the courtyard. A couple of the Eladrin crew tumbled overboard to lay unconscious on the gravel floor below and the other Arcanon Confederacy Wizard aboard was hurled to the deck.
The ship settled roughly into the courtyard as a female Eladrin teleported to the ground and was running away. Some of the Eladrin Archers rematerialized on the deck, having Fey Stepped out of the archery gallery above and opened fire on her at the command of the Wizard. Sensing that she had betrayed the other Eladrin and crashed the ship on purpose, the PC's ran to aid her but it was too late. She fell to the ground, riddled with arrows.
Eshik turned and rushed the ship, now resting on the ground and made short work of the Wizard. But a pair of the Archers dashed to the stern where the magical orb that apparently drove the vessel was located and, with a grinding lurch they attempted to get it aloft before all the PC's could get aboard. Astavian and Zanne both managed to scramble on board as Mialain kept up a covering fire with her bow. The Paladin and Warlock along with Eshik closed inexorably upon the last surviving pair of Eladrin Archers at the helm of the ship.
One of them brought the pommel of his short sword down upon the orb with a loud CRACK and the orb went dark. The ship heeled over on its side and the stern dug into the rocky ground, sending all aboard tumbling out. Mialain dashed after them and within moments was healing the cuts and scrapes her comerades had suffered in the crash that had killed both of the Archers.
Returning to the body of the Eladrin who had seemingly aided them, Mialain heard the final word that escaped her dying lips: "Sellarain..." As her body went limp, a wooden holy symbol tumbled from her hand. A symbol of Melora.
******
Aaaaand here we have yet another Big Epic Fight where the PC's are outnumbered and outgunned and I expect them to pull off some kind of miracle in order to win. As usual they did.
One of my design goals for this combat was to run a truly mixed set of combatants instead of just one or two. It met that goal for sure but, if I had it to do over again, I'd probably have given myself double the number of Archers and made them Minions rather than the six (slighly dumbed down) Arcane Archers that I used.
The Bugbears worked well as the fodder to tie up the PC's while the Archers and Wizards worked them over. It was of course smart and expected that they would retreat into the entrance to the fortress. This part of the fight was made less static by the fact that they needed to try and break out to help Eshik and also by the Eladrin Archers who Fey Stepped into the archery gallery and moved around to attack them from behind (I kind of glossed over that part in my narrative above).
I had not foreseen the boarding and takeoff of the ship at the end of the fight. But it gave me a great opportunity to wrap things up without needing to grind through the HP of those last couple Archers by them suicidally sabatoging the ship so that it wouldn't fall into enemy hands. I just killed the Archers outright and let the PC's on board make some Athletics/Acrobatics checks to determine how much damage they took in the process. Zanne got to once again use her Catstep Boots to halve some falling damage!
The bit with the Eladrin chick at the end of the fight was of course a bit of a handwave of the normal dying/death rules for dramatic effect. When they tried to save her earlier in the fight I told them that she was mortally wounded beyond the ability of healing magic to fix. Now I'd never do that to a PC of course but one of the things that I like about 4e is how I don't have to try and always apply the same rules to NPC's and monsters. So I got a nice, cinematic death scene out of the deal and yet another plot hook. Because Sellerain is Mialain's lost brother that she's been searching for since before the start of the campaign. So of course Mialain immediately set about casting Gentle Repose on her corpse in the hopes of having her Raised when they get back to the Dwarves.
Oh and at the end of this session the PC's made 6th level.
Some experimentation showed that the Mist would not cling to any of the bones brought into it. Merely carrying a small piece of the bone was not enough to keep the Mist away from one of the adventurers but they guessed that a whole suit of armor fashioned from the stuff might provide considerable protection from the foul stuff. They gathered a few of the smaller bones to take with them for further study and entered back through the River Gate.
They bade their final farewell to The Guardian whose control scepter they cast into the lava pit. "You are free to go as you please now. What will you do now that you are no longer bound to this place?" asked Astavian. The Guardian replied with his rumbling voice, "I shall have to give it some thought. But you have my thanks." The PC's began their ascent back up the long, spiral avenue of Old Karak Tor.
They re-entered the ancient tailor's shop and climbed the hundred foot ladder back to the chamber where they had fought the spider. Her putrifying body was enough to quickly send them out of the room and they made their way out the central passage, up the stairs and through the broken front gates of Old Karak Tor out into the sunshine once more.
Suddenly they were beset from their flanks by two groups of Bugbears! As they recovered from this surprise they were met with another: The shadow of a sixty foot long boat hull loomed above them as an Eladrin Winged Ship came into view, archers gathered along the railing. They saw the Eladrin Mage they had done battle with at the Hearth Door standing in the prow. "You are all under arrest for the murder of agents of the Arcanon Confederacy, including a Guildmaster! Lay down your arms and surrender or you will be killed!"
The PC's of course had no intentions of surrendering. Quickly they dashed back into the relative safety of the passage from which they had just emerged where the Bugbears could only come at them a few at a time and the archers would be limited in their ability to shoot at them. All except Eshik. He reacted too slowly and his retreat was cut off by the eight Bugbears. He quickly withdrew to one of the walls of the courtyard where he at least had his back against something solid. Arrows trailing magical fire streaked at him from the deck of the ship above and left scorch marks on the wall around him as some of the Bugbears broke off from the press into the broken stone gates and moved in on the Dragonborn Ranger.
Meanwhile in the corridor Astavian was fighting three at a time and trying to keep Mialain and Zanne close behind him in order not to let the Bugbears slip past them. They had retreated a few steps back so that the Eladrin Archers could not fire upon them. "Where is Eshik?!" yelled Mialain over the din of the battle. But a moment later Zanne enveloped the entrance with the blackness of her Hunger of Hadar. Eshik was out of sight and on his own.
The seething darkness took a terrible toll on the Bugbear attackers and within a few moments most of them lay dead to it or Astavian's chisel tipped greatsword. The blackness abated and they pressed forward in the hopes that they could aid Eshik. They emerged to find the Ranger laying in a pool of blood and the Eladrin Ship hovering right inside the courtyard. Mialain broke from the entranceway and worked the magic of Melora to heal the fallen Dragonborn.
Above most of the Eladrin Archers had mysteriously vanished but the Wizard was nearby and blasting away with his lightning magic. Zanne set him afire with the Flames of Phlegethos. Astavian dashed forward and finished the Wizard with a smite from his sword. Suddenly there came a crashing, rending of timbers from overhead as the ship crashed into the stone face of the courtyard. A couple of the Eladrin crew tumbled overboard to lay unconscious on the gravel floor below and the other Arcanon Confederacy Wizard aboard was hurled to the deck.
The ship settled roughly into the courtyard as a female Eladrin teleported to the ground and was running away. Some of the Eladrin Archers rematerialized on the deck, having Fey Stepped out of the archery gallery above and opened fire on her at the command of the Wizard. Sensing that she had betrayed the other Eladrin and crashed the ship on purpose, the PC's ran to aid her but it was too late. She fell to the ground, riddled with arrows.
Eshik turned and rushed the ship, now resting on the ground and made short work of the Wizard. But a pair of the Archers dashed to the stern where the magical orb that apparently drove the vessel was located and, with a grinding lurch they attempted to get it aloft before all the PC's could get aboard. Astavian and Zanne both managed to scramble on board as Mialain kept up a covering fire with her bow. The Paladin and Warlock along with Eshik closed inexorably upon the last surviving pair of Eladrin Archers at the helm of the ship.
One of them brought the pommel of his short sword down upon the orb with a loud CRACK and the orb went dark. The ship heeled over on its side and the stern dug into the rocky ground, sending all aboard tumbling out. Mialain dashed after them and within moments was healing the cuts and scrapes her comerades had suffered in the crash that had killed both of the Archers.
Returning to the body of the Eladrin who had seemingly aided them, Mialain heard the final word that escaped her dying lips: "Sellarain..." As her body went limp, a wooden holy symbol tumbled from her hand. A symbol of Melora.
******
Aaaaand here we have yet another Big Epic Fight where the PC's are outnumbered and outgunned and I expect them to pull off some kind of miracle in order to win. As usual they did.
One of my design goals for this combat was to run a truly mixed set of combatants instead of just one or two. It met that goal for sure but, if I had it to do over again, I'd probably have given myself double the number of Archers and made them Minions rather than the six (slighly dumbed down) Arcane Archers that I used.
The Bugbears worked well as the fodder to tie up the PC's while the Archers and Wizards worked them over. It was of course smart and expected that they would retreat into the entrance to the fortress. This part of the fight was made less static by the fact that they needed to try and break out to help Eshik and also by the Eladrin Archers who Fey Stepped into the archery gallery and moved around to attack them from behind (I kind of glossed over that part in my narrative above).
I had not foreseen the boarding and takeoff of the ship at the end of the fight. But it gave me a great opportunity to wrap things up without needing to grind through the HP of those last couple Archers by them suicidally sabatoging the ship so that it wouldn't fall into enemy hands. I just killed the Archers outright and let the PC's on board make some Athletics/Acrobatics checks to determine how much damage they took in the process. Zanne got to once again use her Catstep Boots to halve some falling damage!
The bit with the Eladrin chick at the end of the fight was of course a bit of a handwave of the normal dying/death rules for dramatic effect. When they tried to save her earlier in the fight I told them that she was mortally wounded beyond the ability of healing magic to fix. Now I'd never do that to a PC of course but one of the things that I like about 4e is how I don't have to try and always apply the same rules to NPC's and monsters. So I got a nice, cinematic death scene out of the deal and yet another plot hook. Because Sellerain is Mialain's lost brother that she's been searching for since before the start of the campaign. So of course Mialain immediately set about casting Gentle Repose on her corpse in the hopes of having her Raised when they get back to the Dwarves.
Oh and at the end of this session the PC's made 6th level.
