D&D 5E Running Phandelver - help me make it less like a video game

[Moravave]

I'm running D&D for the first time in over 20 years and I've started by learning 5e and running Phandelver.

We've played two very long sessions - the PCs cleared the first cave, hung around Phandelver a bit, fought some Redbrands at the Sleeping Giant and are about to enter the hideout.

My problem is, it's been hard running it without making the "quest" system feel like a video game.

It's partially my fault, partially the modules fault, and partially the players who are all gamers, but instead of the Stonehill Inn feeling like a real tavern it felt like a WoW questhub or a tavern in Skyrim. Everyone "of course" had a little piece of info and a quest to give.

What's a good way to get around this? Obviously I want to guide them to different places but I feel like "quest giving" feels too mechanical. I've been thinking of getting some old 1e modules again to read just so I can see how it was done in the time before video games...

 

[iserith]

The quest-giver is a pretty old trope in D&D. I can't venture a guess to know when the first quest-giver appeared, but I imagine they did pretty early on, if only as a loose reason to have the PCs turn up at some Gygaxian dungeon or another adventuring location and toss the place.

Quest-givers serve a purpose and I think its similarity to video games is probably because it's simply the most efficient way to provide exposition, adventure hooks, and maybe say something about the flavor of the adventure/setting. I think the key to it is to make sure the quest-giver scene doesn't take too long and gets the damn point across. Nothing worse than a quest-giver scene that drags in my opinion because, really, there is rarely any dramatic conflict to it, no stakes, nothing to win or lose. You get your info dump and you're off.

So, I suggest just leaving it as is and maybe explaining to your players that in the chicken-and-egg of quest-givers in RPGs, tabletop or otherwise, it came from D&D first.

Edit: One other thing - you really don't have to give all the quests away up front. Let them trickle in, when it makes sense, and when the given quest-giver has the pre-text to approach the PCs about whatever problem they need solving. It needn't be a matter of talking to all the NPCs in the bar with the question marks above their heads. Whenever possible, let it happen naturally.

 

[Ralif Redhammer]

For my part, I’d say it’s in the little details. What the NPC looks like, what they talk like. Heck, even the food and drink. Give each NPC a personality beyond just the quest, even if it’s just “Afraid of flumphs, waves hands around expressively.”

Also, when they walk into the Inn, let them do whatever they want – give them time to come up with their own ideas – maybe one of them wants to play games of chance, while another wants to drink. Maybe someone is curious about rumors they’ve heard. One of the strengths of tabletop gaming over videogames is that you can adapt and improvise.

As far as old 1e modules were concerned, a lot of the time it was just assumed that you were there to do whatever needed doing, with little need for a proper hook. If the module was about the Tomb of Horrors, well, then you were there to explore the Tomb of Horrors and die trying.

 

[cmad1977]

For the short time I ran thisnadventure (I'd like to run the whole thing) I had Phandelver look a lot like Deadwood. Kind of a border town with no real law. Red brand gang members riding around harassing shopkeeps, dragging peasants behind horses. The feel I tried o go with was a bit of a 'gold rush'. There's money to be made here and everyone wants a piece of it.

This probably doesn't help much, but it did help get the PCs into the adventure by way of engaging with the locals about the mine/gang as opposed to simply finding the yellow exclamation point.


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[DM Magic]

When I ran Lost Mine of Phandelver, I thought it was silly that the characters would interrupt their very important quest so save Gundren with a bunch of side quests. So I didn't even offer them -- until after the adventure was complete. Basically, the group comes back to town, Gundren is saved, the Black Spider is destroyed, and everyone is impressed by how well they did. Now all the NPCs want the group to help them with their problems now. It was a lot more organic. In this way, the side quests become a sort of coda or epilogue to LMoP.

 

[Moravave]

When I ran Lost Mine of Phandelver, I thought it was silly that the characters would interrupt their very important quest so save Gundren with a bunch of side quests. So I didn't even offer them -- until after the adventure was complete. Basically, the group comes back to town, Gundren is saved, the Black Spider is destroyed, and everyone is impressed by how well they did. Now all the NPCs want the group to help them with their problems now. It was a lot more organic. In this way, the side quests become a sort of coda or epilogue to LMoP.

I thought about this actually - they were anxious to save Gundren but I let the Redbrand encounter lead them to the manor...I was worried Cragmaw Castle would be too brutal for 2nd level...did you have to tone it down?

 

[iserith]

I say never tone it down - just make sure the players are aware of the threat level. Then they can make an informed choice about whether or how to engage with the challenge.

 

[The Human Target]

Video games copied "quest givers" from D&D, not the other way around.

 

[DM Magic]

I thought about this actually - they were anxious to save Gundren but I let the Redbrand encounter lead them to the manor...I was worried Cragmaw Castle would be too brutal for 2nd level...did you have to tone it down?

I didn't tone it down; as long as you don't have the entire castle mob at once, it's fine. However, my group was pretty sly -- they had Glassstaff's staff and decided they would impersonate him. They got all the way to the main bad guy's chambers (can't remember his name) when he was alike, "You're not Glassstaff!" It was awesome.

 

[Jer]

It's partially my fault, partially the modules fault, and partially the players who are all gamers, but instead of the Stonehill Inn feeling like a real tavern it felt like a WoW questhub or a tavern in Skyrim. Everyone "of course" had a little piece of info and a quest to give.

What's a good way to get around this? Obviously I want to guide them to different places but I feel like "quest giving" feels too mechanical.

Scatter the folks around in the rest of the village and have the PCs encounter them more naturally. Tweak the "quests" from "can you do this for me" to "I heard a rumor about" where you can - dangle an opportunity in front of them instead of having someone set them on a task. It's a different set of tropes - more mercenary than do-gooder - but they work if your group is at all curious. (If you take this to one extreme it basically becomes a sandbox where you're dropping hints about locations/events and trusting that the players' natural curiosity will cause them to follow up on those hints. If you don't have players like that, you may have to add a bit more push to the hints). The big thing is to have more than one option available to them, and to make sure that none of the options are as dumb as the quests you get in video games.

Also look over your players character sheets (or just listen to what they're talking about) and see if you can tie the quests more directly into their own background/desires/interests. If you know that the bard in your group is looking for a magic lute, see if you can swap one of the treasures out in one of the side-quests for a magic lute. Then drop some rumors of a magic lute to one or more of the PCs (not necessarily the one you know who wants it). It doesn't have to be about stuff either - if one of your PCs has some background element in their character that you can call out it works just as well for a lot of players. Every campaign end up I having a player who has a background where some brother/cousin/parent/whatever is missing/dead/turned evil/whatever. I don't know why, but it happens. So I can almost always get at least one cheap 'buy in' from that player as I drop some quest cookie in front of them that relates to said missing relative.

I've been thinking of getting some old 1e modules again to read just so I can see how it was done in the time before video games...

Some mix of what I've outlined above along with blatant quest-giving. It's where the video games got the idea from. Starting "in media res" was often a part of those old adventures too - no explanation for why the party would want to be at the door of a particular dungeon, just here's where the adventure starts and it's up to you to figure out how to work it into your game.