D&D 4E Running player commentary on PCat's 4E Campaign - Heroic tier (finished)

[Blackjack]

The Heal skill is far from useless outside of combat. There are two key rituals that depend on a high Heal check for maximum usefulness

I didn't say it was useless -- just that it seems silly that the skill only heals disease and such, and is not helpful with wounds.

 

[WizarDru]

I didn't say it was useless -- just that it seems silly that the skill only heals disease and such, and is not helpful with wounds.

I know a couple of my players felt the change to the 'heal economy' was perhaps the most jarring part of the shift to 4e. We found, though, that the cleric's powers greatly enhanced our survivability in that regard. In fact, the best change to the cleric for us was that the person wasn't forced to ONLY be the party healer, but could heal while doing other things. Being able to strike an opponent and give my fighter 3 temporary hp, for example, proved very beneficial, as did enhancing the fighter's healing surges using his clerical powers to make them more effective.

The joke around the table was that the cleric should be named BASF...."I don't heal you, I make your healing better."

 

[Blackjack]

I know a couple of my players felt the change to the 'heal economy' was perhaps the most jarring part of the shift to 4e.

That's certainly been my experience. Not only do you have to rethink how you heal (e.g. it's not just about the cleric any more), but you have to rethink the idea of what healing and wounds even mean (losing hp no longer necessarily represents taking an actual wound, since clearly normal people don't all regenerate at will). That's a big change from how things went from Basic Set through 3e.

 

[Plane Sailing]

I found it at the same time jarring and yet more conceptually satisfying, if that makes sense!

I like the way that people can get a second wind themselves in combat. I especially like the way that healing spells are relatively as good for all people (i.e. basic heal restores roughly 1/4 your hit points whether 1st level or 21st level). It eliminates the wierdness that I always felt was present were CLW gets someone back from a mortal wound if they are 1st level, but only removes a scratch when they are 20th.

So it is very different to every way that hp have worked in previous editions - although it is probably more in keeping with the way that hit points have been described in almost all previous editions!

Overall, it is one of my favourite changes in 4e.

Cheers

 

[Blackjack]

I found it at the same time jarring and yet more conceptually satisfying, if that makes sense!

Sure does. D&D's hp mechanic was always absurd -- as you note, what's a bare scratch to one person was a gaping chest wound to another, so the new surge mechanic really makes sense of damage and healing.

So yeah, the change is jarring when you're coming from a previous edition, but it's a lot more sensible once you get into it.

 

[Rel]

I thought I'd post here with my new and (possibly?) improved Healing rules. I decided, particularly in light of certain setting elements in my campaign, that I would do away with having to track specific penalties and go with a more broad based approach. Here are the entirety of the rules (and I'm totally open to any comments about them - these aren't playtested and maybe I missed some dire implications):

Healing Rules:

Healing works as normal in most cases. However it is possible for the PC to become “Wounded”. Such a character has suffered physical damage severe enough to make recovery more painful and difficult.

There are two possible ways for a PC to become Wounded:

A PC who fails a Death Save while at negative Hit Points becomes Wounded.

Certain monsters (mostly Elite and Solo monsters) or Traps may cause a PC to become Wounded on a Critical Hit.

While Wounded a PC suffers from the following effects:

They do not regain full hit points after an Extended Rest. A successful Heal check allows them to regain hit points equal to one Healing Surge.

The PC loses full use of their Healing Surges. The PC has the same number of Surges as normal but these may only be used when “activated” by other healing effects (such as Cleric or Warlord Powers or Second Wind). Healing Surges may not otherwise be voluntarily spent in order to regain Hit Points.

A character may attempt to recover from being Wounded after an Extended Rest by making a successful Endurance check. If the PC is under the care of a character Trained in the Heal skill, that roll may be substituted for the Endurance check. In addition it is possible for certain Rituals to give bonuses to this Endurance check or to heal the Wounded condition outright.

 

[Lackhand]

You're still allowing Second Wind: When can healing surges not otherwise be voluntarily spent?

It sounds like you're trying to prevent short rest healing, but can't you still do that with a series of heal checks?

 

[Rel]

You're still allowing Second Wind: When can healing surges not otherwise be voluntarily spent?

It sounds like you're trying to prevent short rest healing, but can't you still do that with a series of heal checks?

The idea was mainly not to let PC's zip back up to full health after either an Extended or Short Rest. I did leave in Second Wind because I think it models a PC who is beat up but manages, through sheer strength of will, to stay in the fight. Also I thought that it might be very important for a party with no Leader type to give them those extra chances to spend Surges.

 

[Lackhand]

The idea was mainly not to let PC's zip back up to full health after either an Extended or Short Rest. I did leave in Second Wind because I think it models a PC who is beat up but manages, through sheer strength of will, to stay in the fight. Also I thought that it might be very important for a party with no Leader type to give them those extra chances to spend Surges.

Cool. That's what I thought. You can still mostly zip up, though -- I'm pretty sure normally you'd be able to second wind or convince the healer to help you 1/10 minutes, thus heal up by simulating an extended rest.

I'm not sure what the rule there would be -- "don't be a dick" I guess?

 

[Rel]

Cool. That's what I thought. You can still mostly zip up, though -- I'm pretty sure normally you'd be able to second wind or convince the healer to help you 1/10 minutes, thus heal up by simulating an extended rest.

I'm not sure what the rule there would be -- "don't be a dick" I guess?

Ah I see what you are saying. You are (I think) referring to powers like the Cleric's Healing Word being used to heal them up in fairly short order.

Perhaps an answer to this would be an additional effect while Wounded: Every time you are subject to an effect that would allow you to regain Hit Points at the cost of a Healing Surge, you must spend TWO Surges to get that effect.

That would mean that, yes, the Cleric could get the PC on their feet and at full HP with a few uses of Healing Word. But at the cost of most of the Wounded PC's Healing Surges for the day. And at least magic is being used to do it rather than just waking up fresh and new just 'cuz.