D&D 4E Running player commentary on PCat's 4E Campaign - Heroic tier (finished)

[Piratecat]

If I had to add an ideal additional player to my group, it'd be a skilled artist with a cubic ass-ton of miniatures.

 

[Rel]

If I had to add an ideal additional player to my group, it'd be a skilled artist with a cubic ass-ton of miniatures.

Yeah, you need to stop recruiting players solely on the basis of their good looks and statistical skills.

 

[Blackjack]

Oooh! What's the Paladin's stance on that?

Remember, this is 4e -- paladins don't have to be Lawful Good.

 

[WizarDru]

My first inclination was to say no, but then I figured what the hell; it would turn a vaguely useful permanent magic item into a very useful one-adventure magic item, it was creative, and it made complete sense in an adventure that requires stealth. Reducing movement by one square made the decision into something that wasn't a no-brainer.

Now see, you don't really make a big deal out of this, but this is, IMHO, one of the most important DM-ings lessons I think I've taken away from you, over the years. Finding ways to say 'Yes' to the players instead of saying 'No'. It's not always easy, but it usually is very rewarding. One of the hardest things for me to master as a DM is learning how to let go a little and find a way to let the players guide the ship in ways I might not have expected. That doesn't work for everyone, but it did for me and I KNOW it works for you. Hell, I've seen that first hand.

I am also thrilled to hear how much fun you guys are having. We enjoyed the heck out of using KotS for our 4e dry-run, but running a campaign with it had me slightly concerned, because I haven't DM-ed it, yet. It's nice to hear that the game remains the game, essentially.

 

[Joshua Randall]

I am also thrilled to hear how much fun you guys are having. [...] It's nice to hear that the game remains the game, essentially.

"Ze game remains ze same. Ze game remains ze same!"

 

[Piratecat]

...but running a campaign with it had me slightly concerned, because I haven't DM-ed it, yet. It's nice to hear that the game remains the game, essentially.

So far my initial concerns aren't justified. There is just as much roleplaying, just as much behind-the-scenes maneuvering, and just as much character interaction -- with far easier DM prep, faster and more tactically rich combat (now that the learning curve for each player's powers is diminishing), and a longer adventuring day. Yeah, I'm having a blast, enough that I'm starting a second campaign in three weeks for different players.

We had some discussion about the healing potion mechanics last night. It struck people as odd that the healing potion uses a surge, and that it effectively stopped working after you ran out of surges. It also bothers Blackjack that his healing skill wasn't appreciably useful outside of combat. He did use it with great effect when Logan was having his head munched on, though, darting in to give him a free surge mid-combat.

 

[Blackjack]

It also bothers Blackjack that his healing skill wasn't appreciably useful outside of combat.

It seems a little silly to me, at least, that the Heal skill only benefits the healing of wounds in mid-combat. (And even then, it just makes the healing faster, not stronger.) Once the combat is over, having someone with a high Heal skill gives you absolutely no benefit at all.

It's a consequence of 4e's more cinematic approach to healing (e.g. "a good night's sleep heals all injuries"), really.

It doesn't make me regret my character concept, mind you, and once the combat was over, I still spent time checking in with all the injured parties and applying salves and bandages and the like, even though doing so gave no tangible in-game benefits.

 

[Rel]

Now see, you don't really make a big deal out of this, but this is, IMHO, one of the most important DM-ings lessons I think I've taken away from you, over the years. Finding ways to say 'Yes' to the players instead of saying 'No'.

I consider it so iconic a piece of GMing advice that our group just calls that "The Piratecat Rule". So do lots of the people I see at the Game Days and GenCon.

It seems a little silly to me, at least, that the Heal skill only benefits the healing of wounds in mid-combat. (And even then, it just makes the healing faster, not stronger.) Once the combat is over, having someone with a high Heal skill gives you absolutely no benefit at all.

It's a consequence of 4e's more cinematic approach to healing (e.g. "a good night's sleep heals all injuries"), really.

It doesn't make me regret my character concept, mind you, and once the combat was over, I still spent time checking in with all the injured parties and applying salves and bandages and the like, even though doing so gave no tangible in-game benefits.

I have a houserule that addresses both of these issues (being fully healed after an extended rest and making Heal useful outside combat). I can post about it if you're interested. Or possibly Piratecat saw the thread I had about it at CM.

 

[Plane Sailing]

It also bothers Blackjack that his healing skill wasn't appreciably useful outside of combat. He did use it with great effect when Logan was having his head munched on, though, darting in to give him a free surge mid-combat.

Considering that leaders would probably be able to use their inspiring doo-dads every 5 minutes out of combat (in the 'expend healing surges to heal yourself up' phase) in order to give added value to the healing surges, It would seem reasonable that healing skill could be used in the same way.

A simple solution which doesn't reward higher skill levels much would be

Heal: You can use this skill to 'aid another' who is using healing surges after an encounter to heal up. If you succeed at the DC10 'aid another' check, they get +2 added to their healing surge value.

This would give a small but nice mechanical benefit to having a competent healer around.

It might be possible to do a version which scales with level better by taking a leaf from DMG p42 - set the DC and the bonus hit points recovered according to party level. I'd probably use 'moderate' DC and Normal/low damage expression.

So at 1st-3rd level a DC15 Heal check would result in 1d6+3 bonus hit points recovered by the treated persons healing surge - similar to the clerics healing word bonus.

Just some thoughts on the issue.

Cheers

 

[Piratecat]

I have a houserule that addresses both of these issues (being fully healed after an extended rest and making Heal useful outside combat). I can post about it if you're interested.

I really like Plane Sailing's ideas, but would you please post your house rule here as well, Rel?