Rel
Liquid Awesome
My computer is going to be down for the rest of today while I take it over to a friend for maintenance but I'll post it when I get a chance.
D&D 4E Running player commentary on PCat's 4E Campaign - Heroic tier (finished)
- Thread starter Sagiro
- Start date
My computer is going to be down for the rest of today while I take it over to a friend for maintenance but I'll post it when I get a chance.
Thanee
First Post
DC 10 seems awfully low, though. Everyone will be able to beat that, a competent healer will not even need to roll.
Also, it doesn't scale with level.
Maybe something like this would be nice...
a Heal Check (once for each set of injuries, i.e. only once after an encounter) heals the check result minus 20 hit points (maximum of the patient's healing surge value) to the patient. Takes 1 minute and requires a healer's kit, which gets used up over time (to add some cost to this at least).
Bye
Thanee
Also, it doesn't scale with level.
Maybe something like this would be nice...
a Heal Check (once for each set of injuries, i.e. only once after an encounter) heals the check result minus 20 hit points (maximum of the patient's healing surge value) to the patient. Takes 1 minute and requires a healer's kit, which gets used up over time (to add some cost to this at least).
Bye
Thanee
RangerWickett
Legend
Sagiro, Pkitty, one of the most commonly cited things people want 'fixed' in 4e (in another current thread) is to make combat not take so long. What are you thoughts on the speed of combat? How long does a typical combat take you guys?
Rel
Liquid Awesome
Ok, so here's the gist of it: It's possible for the PC's to take "Wounds" that cause some sort of incapacitation. These can range from the very small (broken finger that causes -1 to hit or AC from a weapon or shield in that hand) to the fairly nasty (you're in a coma and unconscious). After an Extended Rest you get a Saving Throw to recover from such a wound. Successful Heal checks (based on level-appropriate DCs because tougher monsters inflict tougher wounds) give a bonus to this roll. There are also a couple Rituals that give bonuses to the Save or heal these conditions outright.
The question obviously arises "When do the PC's take such wounds?" I've come up with two possibilities, of which I'll probably pick one or the other when I go to run my campaign. Either on a Critical Hit OR when a PC fails a Death Save after falling below zero HP.
If I do the Critical Hit thing, I plan to let the PC's spend a Healing Surge to avoid taking the Wound. This represents the ability to turn what would have been a nasty hit into something not so bad (merely the loss of HP).
Anyway, obviously this adds a layer of complexity to the game but the chart that I'm working on for the wounds is fairly brief. And the wounds themselves are designed to impose one condition that should be fairly easy to track. The benefit that comes at the cost of this added complexity is that the PC's are not necessarily "good as new" the morning after the big fight with the dragon. It also adds more need for the Heal skill and Rituals, which makes investment in those skills meaningful and worthwhile for those PC's.
All of that said, something like Thanee's idea above holds a lot of appeal in terms of simplicity. But if I were going to implement that then I would definitely say that Healing Surges regenerate during an Extended Rest but Hit Points do not.
The question obviously arises "When do the PC's take such wounds?" I've come up with two possibilities, of which I'll probably pick one or the other when I go to run my campaign. Either on a Critical Hit OR when a PC fails a Death Save after falling below zero HP.
If I do the Critical Hit thing, I plan to let the PC's spend a Healing Surge to avoid taking the Wound. This represents the ability to turn what would have been a nasty hit into something not so bad (merely the loss of HP).
Anyway, obviously this adds a layer of complexity to the game but the chart that I'm working on for the wounds is fairly brief. And the wounds themselves are designed to impose one condition that should be fairly easy to track. The benefit that comes at the cost of this added complexity is that the PC's are not necessarily "good as new" the morning after the big fight with the dragon. It also adds more need for the Heal skill and Rituals, which makes investment in those skills meaningful and worthwhile for those PC's.
All of that said, something like Thanee's idea above holds a lot of appeal in terms of simplicity. But if I were going to implement that then I would definitely say that Healing Surges regenerate during an Extended Rest but Hit Points do not.
Iron Sky
Procedurally Generated
I've thought about a really simple way to handle wounds:
Definition: Wound - the character has taken an injury severe enough that it will take time to heal. A character with a Wound has his maximum healing surge rating reduced by 1 per wound. If the character is at full healing surges when he takes a Wound, he loses one healing surge.
At the end of each day, he may make an Endurance or Heal check to recover from the Wound, with a DC equal to 18 + 1/2 the character's level. Another character may also make a Heal check, substituting it for the Wounded PC's Endurance or Heal if it is higher. A character can only roll a Heal check for Wounds per day per tier, whether they use it on themselves or others.
If a character is reduced to 0 healing surges by Wounds, they slip unconcious until they have at least 1 healing surge.
Aquiring Wounds - If a player is bloodied during a fight, then after the fight they make a saving throw. If it fails, they take a Wound. If a character is dropped(0 hp or less), they take a Wound automatically. A PC can't take more than 1 Wound per encounter.
Think I'm going to implement it in my 4e game. Simple to track, wounds persist, sometimes for a while, hindering the characters enough to make them worth watching without requiring tracking of additional penalties.
Also makes the Heal and Endurance skills useful to invaluable...
Definition: Wound - the character has taken an injury severe enough that it will take time to heal. A character with a Wound has his maximum healing surge rating reduced by 1 per wound. If the character is at full healing surges when he takes a Wound, he loses one healing surge.
At the end of each day, he may make an Endurance or Heal check to recover from the Wound, with a DC equal to 18 + 1/2 the character's level. Another character may also make a Heal check, substituting it for the Wounded PC's Endurance or Heal if it is higher. A character can only roll a Heal check for Wounds per day per tier, whether they use it on themselves or others.
If a character is reduced to 0 healing surges by Wounds, they slip unconcious until they have at least 1 healing surge.
Aquiring Wounds - If a player is bloodied during a fight, then after the fight they make a saving throw. If it fails, they take a Wound. If a character is dropped(0 hp or less), they take a Wound automatically. A PC can't take more than 1 Wound per encounter.
Think I'm going to implement it in my 4e game. Simple to track, wounds persist, sometimes for a while, hindering the characters enough to make them worth watching without requiring tracking of additional penalties.
Also makes the Heal and Endurance skills useful to invaluable...
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Sagiro
Rodent of Uncertain Parentage
So far it seems fine, though that may be a function of our low level.
The first combat of last game, which involved 5 PC's and 8 or 9 enemies, took (I think) about an hour, maybe less. That felt snappy-quick to me, and the pacing felt fine.
The complaints I've read involve fights against enemies with lots of hit points, and I don't think we've faced an Elite monster yet, let alone a Solo. So I don't think we've yet had the kind of combat that folks are griping about. I'll let you know if I think things slow down too much as we progress.
Joshua Randall
Legend
The Heal skill is far from useless outside of combat. There are two key rituals that depend on a high Heal check for maximum usefulness:
Cure Disease -- you really don't want to take damage from having your disease cured, right?
Remove Affliction -- ditto; plus, unlike with diseases, some afflications you don't get better from on your own (petrification comes to mind)
Cure Disease -- you really don't want to take damage from having your disease cured, right?
Remove Affliction -- ditto; plus, unlike with diseases, some afflications you don't get better from on your own (petrification comes to mind)
WizarDru
Adventurer
I admit, I'm waiting to see how it plays out for you guys. When we did our six or seven sessions, we felt that combat was, as you say, 'snappy'. We managed to make it to 3rd level with a group of 5, involving combats with upwards of 15 enemies at one point. At it's worst, it didn't feel anywheres near as slow as combat sometimes could in 3e. I'm sure that higher levels will feature some degree of slowdown, but I found more of our slowness in the first session or so was due to the unfamiliarity of the system, not the system itself.
Piratecat
Sesquipedalian
I haven't artificially reduced any monster's hit points, and combat has felt really fast. Of course, we have a jillion strikers and we're coming from epic-level 3.5, so it's bound to be quicker at this point. The complaint I've heard is that some fights become a "I know we'll win in 40 minutes" situation, so I'm keeping an eye open for that.
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