Ryan Dancey speaks - the Most Successful Year for Fantasy RPGaming ever. However...

[Ralts Bloodthorne]

Where was TSR and later WotC during all of this? They dabbled with the original Neverwinter Nights at AOL (not the Bioware game - the original online version) and then let it slide.

It was as if they came home - found some guy boinking the wife - and decided to go to the lviing room and watch TV.

The reason they did this? Well...there really is no good reason for this at all. D&D Online should have been created years ago and should be on its third incarnation by now. WoW is reaping the harvest of the demand AD&D created for this type of adventure game product.

So - where is Hasbro? Why haven't they done anything until now?

QFT.

Hasbro (and TSR before them) seem to have NO DAMN CLUE how software markets work. Remember the eTools fiasco? Geez, what a dog. And the new Eberron game, that's supposed to be a MMORPG? Do they REALLY think it'll compete? If the past examples of Hasbro software is any guess, you'll be lucky if your computer doesn't explode when you unwrap the DVD.

Will MMORPG's take a cut out of RPG's and kill them? Phhhht. No. MMORPG's are limited, you have to put up with 12 year old script kiddies with names like NINJA-MASTER-LOOTERZ-RULZ! and crap like that.

If DONE CORRECTLY MMORPG's could be a fantastic "gateway drug" into RPG's. With the X-Box 360 and PS-3 going to be a fully online system, maybe now is the time for WotC/Hasbro to take a REAL good look at how Blizzard and NCSoft have made such a tremendous success.

Hey, just think of how many people would pick up the core books if THAT had the formulae for how things work on the MMORPG! All the hard core, non-casual gamers would definately grab up a set of Core Rules books if they thought it would give them the slightest edge.

It's a simple thing, but I doubt it would even come up.

MMORPG's require four things...

Clean, easy to use interface.
Large, often expanded world that is interesting and interactive.
Good storyline and engaging plot lines.
MUST fufill gamer power needs.

D&D has DECADES of doing this. Why hasn't Hasbro put out a decent MMORPG? I've got an idea.

 

[FickleGM]

The above is about as relative.

For RPG's to compete with CRPG's is like Schwinn competing with Intel.

They make different things, appeal to different audiences, require a different infrastructure, and are used in different ways.

Many posters here have gone over the differences between RPG's and CRPG's, so I won't bother listing them here.

All I want to know, is what's with all the "THE SKY IS FALLING! THE SKY IS FALLING!" posts and other crap we're seeing?

If your business has a record year for income, why are you complaining that a different industry made more?

Should I complain because Acme Shoelaces made more than I did last year?

Get a grip. Concentrate on THIS industry, and quit claiming that everything is the end of RPG's as we know it.

I don't know that it is as much competing with CRPG's as it is perceiving a possible threat to RPG sales. More tangential than direct competition, but still a business consideration.

As to "THE SKY IS FALLING! THE SKY IS FALLING!", I suspect that we are aware of what the probable answer to that is. In order to produce a desired reaction, you must inject the proper stimuli. When we were treated to the "we're about to run out of gas" (read - THE SKY IS FALLING! THE SKY IS FALLING!) news after Katrina, did everyone wait patiently for the crisis to remedy itself? No, people lined up for blocks to get the last few drops of fuel in the world. The desired reaction was produced (not to everyone's satisfaction, but produced nonetheless).

In this case, the desired reaction is probably to increase ferver for the hobby, ire over possible threats to the hobby and perhaps even sales in order to protect the hobby.

 

[eyebeams]

Most deceptive thread title ever.

 

[Mark CMG]

Most deceptive thread title ever.

You missed the storyhour from the game with The Bare Naked Ladies?

 

[Man in the Funny Hat]

It won't happen in my lifetime.

With a P&P RPG I can adblib anything at a moment's notice. I can build in any NPC, any quest, any dialogue tree - right on the fly. CRPGs can't replace that. If they can, P&P RPGs will die. But again - not in my lifetime.

A big AMEN from me. I agree with everything except the "not in my lifetime". At present CRPGS's are a pathetic wannabe imitation of actual ROLEPLAYING. They are carefully scripted (skillfully of course, but still STINKINGLY scripted) bits of stuff. There is no "roleplaying" because you simply cannot manipulate the world or interact with it (and especially the PEOPLE in it) except in insanely limited and controlled times and places and the depth therof is about that of this piece of paper here on my desk. IT IS NOT ROLEPLAYING.

Roleplaying is, as der_kluge notes, dependant upon the ability not to just assume the role of a character but to go places, say things to other characters (PC -AND- NPC) and get measureless depth, variation, unpredictability and so forth because it in particular is NOT scripted. Direction of play, the level of input, the impact of the responses, and more are all adjustable at whim of players and DM on the fly. You can't get anything but the thinnest veneer of that from a CRPG.

But computers continue to improve in processing power and games continue to use every bit of it that they can squeeze out and more in their visuals, audio, and what actually IS an ever-increasingly involved game experience - but it is NOT roleplaying no matter how many times people call it that. Now given the flabbergasting speed of technological changes, advancements and permeation into our lives I have no trouble whatever not only believing it possible but EXPECTING that within my lifetime the first truly passable computer-DM'd genuine roleplaying game will be available. The World Wide Web was introduced only 15 years ago. CD's killed both cassette tapes and LP's - and now how old is the iPod? And how perfect a match is the MP3 player for downloaded music whether from iTunes or some other commercial site or illicitly from file-sharing clients? Does it not demonstrate that within the short span of 5-10 years the entire freaking nature of the music recording industry has been revolutionized with devastating impact on correlated industries, such as music radio?

I'm not gonna hold my breath waiting for it, but to say "not in my lifetime" is REALLY short-sighted.

 

[BryonD]

At present CRPGS's are a pathetic wannabe imitation of actual ROLEPLAYING.

Yep.

Many years ago, back when Magic:TG was GOD, I read an article by Richard Garfield (I think it was in an early issue of Duelist). He was talking about what games were or somesuch. I really only recall one statement that jumped out at me. He said that computer games (one player), strictly speaking are not even really games. They are really just very elaborate puzzles in disguise as a game. I think there is some insight there. They've made progress since then, but CRPGS still need to get past "elaborate puzzle" before they can begin to tackle the RP part.

 

[Turjan]

Well, I am one of those people who came to tabletop RPGs from the CRPG side. It's definitely not a one-way street, and I think it's a good idea if Hasbro keeps other companies interested in producing games built on the D&D/d20 engine, like Neverwinter Nights or Knights of the Old Republic, because this will keep people interested in having a look at P&P RPGs. Even if it's only a small fraction of CRPG players, this is an important gateway that should not get ignored. I still keep playing CRPGs, but not excessively. I have just been playing KotoR II over the last two weeks .

MMORPGs are a bit of a different case. They are time killers. If people think it's easy to meet the expectations those games cause, I like to disagree. Sure, it's much easier to meet online than to travel somewhere. But it's not that easy, either, because you have to become a member of some kind of 'guild' (or whatever it's called in the game), and the guild has expectations in turn. "Be there at 10 p.m. for our newest excursion! Which will probably last until 4 a.m." It's hard to explain to the boss next morning when he finds you asleep at the desk . Perhaps, I was just a bit too involved; the guild I co-founded was one of the most successful that ever existed on one of the UO shards, and I just looked, it's still alive and kicking after all those years . I've decided since that I will never ever play in an MMORPG again. It's hard to combine with a job and social life.

Ryan Dancey has it right when he sees WoW as the most successful MMORPG up to now. It's successful because it's pretty good. Up to now you had the choice between good graphics + shoddy gameplay (most newer MMORPGs), decent graphics + decent gameplay (Everquest) or shoddy graphics + great gameplay (UO). WoW brings this formula to decent graphics + great gameplay, as far as I know. The formula seems to work. Blizzard has been a successful game company for a long time, and this shows. I also lost quite a few friends to the WoW virus, but there are still others who want to stay away from this addiction and keep playing Diablo II on Battlenet or single player games.

I think the computer will win in the end. But D&D can win, too, if they do it right . One doesn't exclude the other.

 

[William Ronald]

You missed the storyhour from the game with The Bare Naked Ladies?

I must have missed it. Were they an all bard party?

 

[johnsemlak]

It wouldn't surprise me if, down the road, Hasbro terminates the production of new D&D products and just continues to reprint "evergreen" products such as the core books, all the while simply licensing the D&D name.

You know, honestly, I don't think that that would be all that bad from my point of view. It wold be a great help to my RPG budget, and would allow me to catch up on products I missed earlier.

I certainly have enough rpg product now to play for a long time.

If this did happen, I'm confident that several years down the line production would start again, perhaps with 4e.

 

[Whizbang Dustyboots]

Now, Guild Wars has a neat idea--just buy the game, then play for free. No monthly cost. I think that this will prove to be more attractive to players, esp. if the economy worsens & players' disposible income decreases. Or games like Neverwinter Nights & Freedom Force--capable of online play and a full-blown solo RPG. I think TRPGs may be threatened a bit more if play-for-free online RPGs becomes the standard.

GuildWars has created and benefited from confusion in the marketplace. It's not offering anything approaching what an MMORPG does, which is why it's capable of being free.

A lot of people voice the issue you do about cost, but players tend to compare the cost (favorably) to cable bills or even Netflix bills. The amount one gets out of what is, essentially, a pretty nominal fee, tends to change the perspective on things.

Compare the cost-per-minute of an MMORPG to a night out at the movies, a Netflix subscription or even a high pagecount book, and MMORPGs come out ahead.