Sage Job

[Rystil Arden]

That's workable, though you're talking about an exploit that would hurt the character in all other aspects other than the sage job.

Well, even for, say, a Wizard. With the new system, the Wizard is actually able to get more cash at 1st level than with the original plan of 1/4 of total ranks, since 1/4 gives 1 gold at 4 ranks, and the flat 1 gold per Knowledge at half gives 1 gold for 2 ranks at level 1.

With the new way I proposed, high level Sages with a secondary specialty get a bit of a boost, while the dabbler at 1st level doesn't get a hoard of gold--he has to put some real thought into it and invest 5 points to get his 1 gold for that skill, which also fits in nicely as the synergy level, which actually makes it more accessible at the same time

 

[Endovior]

KO's solution is better for most levels, but it is actually worse for level 1 because it allows cross-class skills to make hitting 10 even easier (since 1 GP is what you are getting for your primary at level 1). What I'd do is give 1/4 ranks for primary, optionally 1/8 ranks for secondary (if you have a second area above 8 ranks or for level 1), +1 for every skill at least at 5 ranks. This is actually less restrictive than KO's solution in most cases, since you don't need to keep the tertiary skills at half max ranks, and it helps fix degeneracy at edge cases.

Just to clarify... you're saying 1/4 Primary + 1/8 Secondary +1 Synergy? BEcause... that's pretty bad.

For reference...

2 Skills Maxed
L1: 1.5 (4 in 2 knowledges, 1+.5)
L5: 4 (8 in 2 knowledges, 2+1+1)
L9: 5.5 (12 in 2 knowledges, 3+1.5+1)

2 Skills Maxed, 1 extra skill track
L1: 1.5 (4 in 3 knowledges, 1+.5)
L5: 5 (8 in 2 knoweldges, 5 in another, 3 extra; 2+1+2)
L9: 8.5 (12 in 2 knowledges, 5 in 2 others, 2 extra; 3+1.5+3)

2 Skills Maxed, 2 extra skill tracks
L1: 1.5 (4 in 4 knowledges, 1+.5)
L5: 7 (8 in 2 knowledges, 5 in 3 others, 1 extra; 2+1+4)
L9: 9.5 (12 in 2 knowledges, 5 in 4 others, 4 extra; 3+1.5+5

Conceivable Maximum (10 knowledges)
L1: 1.5 (4 in 10 knowledges, 1+.5)
L5: 12 (8 in 10 knowledges, 2+1+9)
L9: 13.5(12 in 10 knowledges, 3+1.5+9)

Remember again, that a level one craftsman with max ranks in one craft skill, makes about 4 Gp, and increases decently with level... ESPECIALLY if he's using the huge load of CP he gets for making and selling masterwork items, an option NOT open to the Sage. That beats the hell out of everything BUT the conceivable maximum... and even that could easily be surpassed by an enterprising craftsman.

 

[Rystil Arden]

I would expect a Craftsmen to make a bit more, actually--Craft exists only to create objects of value for use and sale. Profession as well. These two skills should give the highest payoff, therefore, compared to something like Knowledge that also provides myriad useful insights and synergies on the road that Profession: Cooper does not.

And remember, this gives the level 2 Sage with four knowledges (fairly reasonable for someone who really loves knowledge) a little over 4 gold. More than four and you start to overtake Crafting.

 

[Endovior]

No, it shouldn't, both practically and officially.

Practically, those who live by selling their mind, rather then their labor, have always made more money off it... it takes a lot of education to be able to do this, but the payoff is there.

Officially, the DMG says that Sages get 2+ Gp per day, while Smiths get 4sp per day. They charge more then any other hireling does, with the only ones coming close being the Alchemist and the Barrister, who each charge 1 Gp.

This quite clearly states that Sages earn far more then anyone else.

 

[Someone]

I think both of you are right, but because of you´re talking about different aspects. From a mechanical standpoint, Profession (dirt farmer) 4 costs the same skill points as Knowledge (esoteric lore) 4. Therefore, it´s unbalanced to make the Dirt farmer job be less worthy than the Esoteric lore sage job, not to mention the money a dedicated character could make letting his studious rogue sit down doing nothing for months and months of real time.

On the other hand, fantasy lands´ education is better than the medieval counterpart, but that doesn´t mean everyone has easy access to learn esoteric lores. Meaning that expert in that fields are rare, while the only requisite to learn dirt farming is to be raised in a dirt farm. Peasants would also prefer to raise their children in the dirt farm, since they are producing their own dirt since they are very young; expertise on esoteric lores, making a parallel with our own world, takes a long time in which the student is not earning a coin. By that reasoning, it´s evident that Esoteric lore sages should earn more money, if only for the rarity of the skill itself, or else we´d be wondering why anyone would ever bother to learn knowledge (esoteric lore).

 

[Rystil Arden]

knowledge (esoteric lore).

What if it isn't Knowledge (esoteric lore), but instead Knowledge (local) with a small amount of Knowledge (nobility and royalty)? In other words, a Rogue who knows the streets and just enough about the spoiled nobles to get by.

 

[Someone]

Because of that:

You are a scholar, making a living by answering difficult questions.

I got the idea that the job was for scholars, not for tourist guides. Edit: anyway, notice that I wasn´t taking sides with anyone, just pointing at the different sides of the question.

 

[Rystil Arden]

Because of that:



I got the idea that the job was for scholars, not for tourist guides.

Right, but the Rogue can meet the prerequisites--and if he knows a little bit about the city's Geography too, he can make even more as a Tour guide Sage

 

[Endovior]

Actually, Rogues can't meet the prerequisites until 5th level... they only have Knowledge (Local) as a class skill. Therefore, they have to take their second knowledge as cross-class... and thus, they won't have 4 ranks in a second knowledge until 5th level, at least.

Not to mention that the Rogue would be lousy at it, since it's cross-class.

 

[Knight Otu]

Well, apparently, we never really decided on what the pay will be.