Savage Species (3.0?) Half-Ogre Race: Balanced?

[Tyrol]

Looking for thoughts and opinions on the balance of the Half-Ogre race presented in the Savage Species book (which came out before 3.5), in a 3.5 campaign. I saw a 3.5 Half-ogre *template* over at Crystal Keep, but havn't seen a Half-ogre *race* anywhere else.

From Savage Species:

Half-Ogre
Ability Score Adjustments: +6 Str, -2 Dex, +2 Con, -2 Int, -2 Cha
Large size: -1 Atk, -1 AC, and 10' reach.
Base Speed: 30 ft
Darkvision: 60 ft
Natural Armor bonus: +4
Giant blood: For all abilities and effects, a Half-Ogre is considered a Giant.
Automatic Languages: Giant and common.
Favored Class: Barbarian
Level Adjustment: +1

Also of note is that in the campaign you can buy off your Level Adjustment in a similar way as Unearthed Arcana.

 

[CRGreathouse]

No, I think it's too powerful. +5 or +6 damage at a better attack bonus is a lot, and 10' reach is very powerful. In the short term your hit points hurt, but they catch up with the Con bonus.

Comparing the combat stats of a half-ogre Ftr2 with a human Ftr3 (since human is one of the better races for fighters):

Human:
+2 feats, +2 AC, +5 hp or so

Half-Ogre:
+1 attack, +5 damage, reach

The +5 damage is more than two restricted feats give (WS & GWS, for example), and +1 attack is a strong benefit. Reach is incredible powerful...

As the half-ogre gains levels, the analysis swings in his favor -- half-ogres look near-balanced at level 2, but they're killer at level 10.

I wouldn't use them except at +2, personally. Even then they're a strong choice for combat, arguably outclassing humans -- but their limitations would make it a fair choice them, I think.

 

[Spatula]

No, they're not balanced. Over on the WOTC boards, the author of the half-ogre has suggested giving them two racial HD to make them more reasonable.

 

[James McMurray]

What Spaula said. Either give them some racial hit dice or increase the LA to at least +2, possibly even +3.

 

[DarkMaster]

No, I think it's too powerful. +5 or +6 damage at a better attack bonus is a lot, and 10' reach is very powerful. In the short term your hit points hurt, but they catch up with the Con bonus.

Comparing the combat stats of a half-ogre Ftr2 with a human Ftr3 (since human is one of the better races for fighters):

Human:
+2 feats, +2 AC, +5 hp or so

Half-Ogre:
+1 attack, +5 damage, reach

The +5 damage is more than two restricted feats give (WS & GWS, for example), and +1 attack is a strong benefit. Reach is incredible powerful...

As the half-ogre gains levels, the analysis swings in his favor -- half-ogres look near-balanced at level 2, but they're killer at level 10.

I wouldn't use them except at +2, personally. Even then they're a strong choice for combat, arguably outclassing humans -- but their limitations would make it a fair choice them, I think.

Also -2 skills point per level, very difficult to roleplay in urban setting (monstrous appearance, lack of skill (social) and bad charisma), -2 to hit with ranged weapon, need more space to fight effectively. but they also have higher damage using Large weapon(depending on the setting it might also be harder to get large magical weapons and armor) I guess your +5 damage take that in consideration.

I would say it depends on the campaign, pure hack and slash probably a bit stronger at lower level. I personnaly think that at higher level they get equivalent, especially if you cannot buy your level adjustment.

But in a high role playing game this type of character become almost useless (as most fighter, but even worse). Don't know, I personally don't allow non standard race to my player, every time I did it (in previous editions) they ended up giving up their character because they all felt they were utility fighting machine. Every time they had to interact socially they either had to wait outside the city, or have to deal with all kind of complications (people scared, or they were hunted right away, people don't want to interact with them ect...)

 

[~Johnny~]

Yeah, the ability to use Large weapons is practically worth a +1 LA on its own. That *and* a +6 ability bonus is +2 territory for sure.

 

[Pax]

No, they're not balanced. Over on the WOTC boards, the author of the half-ogre has suggested giving them two racial HD to make them more reasonable.

Wow. I know that's the EXACT idea I had way back when, when the book first came out. Looks like either I guessed it right, or the idea made the rounds and the author liked it.

^_^ Whee!

 

[Nyarlathotep]

One of the players in my campaign is playing a half-ogre and they are way too powerful for a +1 LA. I'd recommend a +3 LA: +1 for being large (the boosted damage dice is invaluable), +1 for attribute bonuses, and finally +1 for other benefits (primarily natural armor).

 

[Scion]

there have been a lot of threads about this. They are pretty strong at +1, but they are incredibly limited, you can only really be a couple of character archtypes. However, bumping them up to a flat +2 makes them worthless. If the racial hd is going to be used then probably getting rid of the +1 and giving them 2 racial hd instead is one of the best options.

So: +1, might be too strong, depends on the campaign. In some it is, in others it isnt.

+2 = the suck.

Working out a happy middle ground is incredibly difficult.

 

[James McMurray]

+2 = the suck.

How do you figure?

Being limited to a few archetypes is not a reason for an LA deduction. If you don't want to play a tank-style warrior, you won't be a half-ogre.

Compared to a human warrior-type of one level higher the 1/2 ogre wins every time.

Even at +2 they are just equal, and depending on the actual level the humn r the 1/2 ogre will come out marginally ahead.