Savant: Basic Class Information

A brand new 5E class over on EN5ider! Savants are first and foremost experts, unique even when compared to arcane or divine sages. Brilliant detectives, iconic martial artists, and adventurous physicians are counted among their number, each utilizing brilliance where others rely on magic or brute power. For a savant, saving the day means turning leverage and knowledge into weaponry. By Jeremiah McCoy; illustrated by Alba Palacio.

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[TwoSix]

Very interesting, I do love Intelligence focused classes, especially ones that don't go down the caster route. This is really nice as an Int-based fighter replacement (although I assume the other subclasses will be less fighter-like.)

I do have a few questions, mostly around tricks.

1) Several of the tricks (Disarming Flourish, Guiding Steps) activate on a melee weapon hit. I assume this is part of the weapon attack and costs no other action. I ask only because some of the other tricks (Draw Out, Redirect) have an additional cost (bonus action for Draw Out, reaction for Redirect) in addition to requiring a melee weapon attack. I'm assuming the additional action cost is because Draw Out and Redirect seem stronger than Disarming Flourish or Guiding Steps.

2) Diversion: Does it require an action? It doesn't seem quite powerful enough to require a full action.

3) Marksman's Interruption (Adversary): Does the alternative use (during the attack action) create an additional attack, or add the movement penalty application to the original attack? I'm assuming the latter.

4) Smart Defense (Adversary): Is the Intelligence bonus in addition to the normal Dex bonus, or a replacement? It's a little weak if a replacement, but might be a little too strong at higher levels if an addition. A medium armored Adversary could have a 21 baseline AC at 1st level (15 breastplate + 2 Dex + 2 Int + 2 shield), comparable to a defense oriented fighter or paladin, and that scales up to a 24 by 13th level (assuming a 20 Int, but the class has little reason not to prioritize Int). I mean, it is a martial class, so I have no problem with it being in the same area as a Fighter/Paladin, but the Fighter/Paladin AC doesn't scale except with magic items.

Overall, very nice, I'm interested to see the other subclasses.

 

[Mike Myler]

Very interesting, I do love Intelligence focused classes, especially ones that don't go down the caster route. This is really nice as an Int-based fighter replacement (although I assume the other subclasses will be less fighter-like.)

I do have a few questions, mostly around tricks.

1) Several of the tricks (Disarming Flourish, Guiding Steps) activate on a melee weapon hit. I assume this is part of the weapon attack and costs no other action. I ask only because some of the other tricks (Draw Out, Redirect) have an additional cost (bonus action for Draw Out, reaction for Redirect) in addition to requiring a melee weapon attack. I'm assuming the additional action cost is because Draw Out and Redirect seem stronger than Disarming Flourish or Guiding Steps.

2) Diversion: Does it require an action? It doesn't seem quite powerful enough to require a full action.

3) Marksman's Interruption (Adversary): Does the alternative use (during the attack action) create an additional attack, or add the movement penalty application to the original attack? I'm assuming the latter.

4) Smart Defense (Adversary): Is the Intelligence bonus in addition to the normal Dex bonus, or a replacement? It's a little weak if a replacement, but might be a little too strong at higher levels if an addition. A medium armored Adversary could have a 21 baseline AC at 1st level (15 breastplate + 2 Dex + 2 Int + 2 shield), comparable to a defense oriented fighter or paladin, and that scales up to a 24 by 13th level (assuming a 20 Int, but the class has little reason not to prioritize Int). I mean, it is a martial class, so I have no problem with it being in the same area as a Fighter/Paladin, but the Fighter/Paladin AC doesn't scale except with magic items.

Overall, very nice, I'm interested to see the other subclasses.

Woot woot!

1) Yup on all counts. Reductionist mechanics FTW!

2) No action listed, no action required (it does get the "on your turn" designation though)

3) Does not grant an additional attack (it's part of an Attack action and if it did give another roll, it'd say so)

4) It's an addition. Breastplates cost 400 gold and savants do not begin play with them, but noted all the same (maybe drop that to light armor only--I'll see what Jeremiah thinks)

 

[technoir]

These are good questions. I will do my best to answer.

Very interesting, I do love Intelligence focused classes, especially ones that don't go down the caster route. This is really nice as an Int-based fighter replacement (although I assume the other subclasses will be less fighter-like.)

I do have a few questions, mostly around tricks.

1) Several of the tricks (Disarming Flourish, Guiding Steps) activate on a melee weapon hit. I assume this is part of the weapon attack and costs no other action. I ask only because some of the other tricks (Draw Out, Redirect) have an additional cost (bonus action for Draw Out, reaction for Redirect) in addition to requiring a melee weapon attack. I'm assuming the additional action cost is because Draw Out and Redirect seem stronger than Disarming Flourish or Guiding Steps.

Your assessment is correct. The Disarming Flourish and Guiding Steps are intended to cost no extra action. The decision as to which ones would and wouldn't require an action was based on my feeling of their relative power when I expected them to take effect, and the overall action economy. I hope I got them where they are effective and fun, but not overpowering.

2) Diversion: Does it require an action? It doesn't seem quite powerful enough to require a full action.

Good catch on Diversion. I went back and reviewed my various revisions looking for what it was originally listed as and it looks like it went through the various revisions that way. That is my bad. I would say the assumption I never wrote down is it cost a Bonus action, but it was also a different mechanic for how you picked up the trick. At this point, I would say it is a free action, rather than costing a full action.

3) Marksman's Interruption (Adversary): Does the alternative use (during the attack action) create an additional attack, or add the movement penalty application to the original attack? I'm assuming the latter.

It adds the movement penalty to the original attack

4) Smart Defense (Adversary): Is the Intelligence bonus in addition to the normal Dex bonus, or a replacement? It's a little weak if a replacement, but might be a little too strong at higher levels if an addition. A medium armored Adversary could have a 21 baseline AC at 1st level (15 breastplate + 2 Dex + 2 Int + 2 shield), comparable to a defense oriented fighter or paladin, and that scales up to a 24 by 13th level (assuming a 20 Int, but the class has little reason not to prioritize Int). I mean, it is a martial class, so I have no problem with it being in the same area as a Fighter/Paladin, but the Fighter/Paladin AC doesn't scale except with magic items.

Correct, it is in addition to the normal Dex Bonus to ac. The idea is you analyze the angles of attack and position yourself to be in just the right place to be harder to hit.

Overall, very nice, I'm interested to see the other subclasses.

Thanks for the questions. I enjoyed making the class and I hope people get some use out of it. The advanced article will have more skill based subclass and more healer like one as well.

 

[technoir]

It appears that Mike beat me to the reply. Cursed day job!

 

[Mike Myler]

It appears that Mike beat me to the reply. Cursed day job!

What say you to dropping Medium armor from Fighting Style: Smart Defense?

 

[TwoSix]

Thinking about it a little more, I kind of like Smart Defense as "+1 AC in armor, use Int instead of Dex when wearing Light/Medium Armor.". That keeps Light Armor and Medium Armor comfortably ahead of an unarmored character who doesn't max Dex as well as Int, and lets the savant focus on a secondary stat other than Dex if they desire. It also keeps AC in the baseline 20-21 AC range which is where defense oriented characters typically end up.

 

[technoir]

Thinking about it a little more, I kind of like Smart Defense as "+1 AC in armor, use Int instead of Dex when wearing Light/Medium Armor.". That keeps Light Armor and Medium Armor comfortably ahead of an unarmored character who doesn't max Dex as well as Int, and lets the savant focus on a secondary stat other than Dex if they desire. It also keeps AC in the baseline 20-21 AC range which is where defense oriented characters typically end up.

I am comfortable with this. It seems to keep the idea behind it and seems perfectly workable. That is to say, I wanted originally for them to be strictly armorless like a monk. The Armor is a compromise which was a good compromise.

 

[technoir]

What say you to dropping Medium armor from Fighting Style: Smart Defense?

I think it works with medium armor just with the Int bonus instead of Dex, as per the suggestion he put in the thread. I do like the notion that it expands the builds people might shoot for.

 

[Aiden_Keller_]

Isn't this basically making a Bladesong Wizard and a Bard all into one Class?