Saves For Multiclassing

[Sylrae]

I came up with a fix for Saves and Multiclassing. It's based on the regular system for determining saves (specifically the bad save), but doesnt allow the exploit of the level 1 +2 bump.

Regular System:
1/3*level = Bad Saves
1/2*level+2 = Good Saves
5/12*level+1 = Medium Saves
I made medium saves as directly halfway between the two, for use in the regular system.
this gives totals of 6.67, 9.33, and 12.00 at level 20.

My New System - based on the old bad-save total:
1/3*level = Bad Saves
2/3*level = Good Saves
1/2*level = Medium Saves
Again, medium is directly between the two.
this gives totals of 6.67, 10, and 13.33 at level 20.

I also have 2 other tweaks in case someone doesnt like the increase from 12.00 to 13.33 for good saves.

Based on the old good-save total:
3/10*level = Bad Saves
6/10*level = Good Saves
9/20*level = Medium Saves
this gives totals of 6.00, 9.00, and 12.00 at 20

and finally

Based on the old good AND bad save totals:
1/3*level = Bad Saves
6/10*level = Good Saves
7/15*level = Medium Saves
this gives totals of 6.67, 9.33, and 12.00 at 20.
As you can see, this gives the most similar results you'll get to the original system, though I prefer the cleaner fractions of 1/3, 1/2, and 2/3.

Feel free to comment or use any of these three alternate systems.

 

[Hawken]

I think your third set was how one of the Star Wars rules did it; either D20 or Sage, can't remember right now. But they had Poor, Good and an Average save that was somewhere in-between.

For my systems, I do this:
Good saves = +0.5 per level.
Poor saves = +0.4 per level.

Round down to whole number. At 1st (character) level, the character gets a one-time +2 bonus to his Good saves. Good saves do not get this bump when they multi-class or go into a prestige class.

This also mitigates one of the weaknesses of multiclassing in that you still get something added to your saves instead of that disappointing +0.

I have a similar formula for BAB as well.

 

[Bladesinger_Boy]

It's kind of unclear to me: do these systems necessarily use fractional BAB, or does each save value from each separate class get rounded down to a discrete value? I like the idea of fractional rules getting built-in to the system.

This might be an area where taking a page from the book of 4th Ed solves things. Okay, so all characters regardless of class progress all three saves at +1/2 per character level (+0 at 1st, +1 at 2nd, +1 at 3rd, +2 at 4th, etc). Also, upon taking a new class (whether a core class or a prestige class), characters get another +2 to apply to a single save or divide into two +1s on two different saves. You could also apply this bonus to "good" saves, so Fighters would have to get +2 to fortitude, while Ranger could get +2 fort or +2 reflex or +1 to both fort and reflex. This reduces higher saves while also boosting weaker saves.

Another point this brings up: what feats or PrCs have base saves as a req? What stuff would have to be retooled?

If we wanted to do something like this for BAB, how? Saves have only two value streams (2+x/2 and 0+x/3) and are closer in values, while BAB have three streams (x, 3x/4, x/2) that end much further apart. The 4th Ed values for BAB are 1/2 per level and that is simply too low in 3.5. Maybe 3/4 with some adjustments? But changing BAB means adjusting a LOT of prestige class; some kind of flat rule?

 

[Sadrik]

I have just said to hell with it you get +1/2 level, period. No class bonuses applied on top of everything. Under this system multi-classing is a snap, 12th level character? +6 saves + stats and other bonuses. It is easy peasy, I went for simple on this because I decided trying to match the 2-12 and 0-6 is not necisary. I also wanted to shore up the problems at upper level in saves not scaling appropriately (+10 is better than +6).