Scout and Disable Device

[Brother Shatterstone]

Neither can search well for the trap*, both would have flatfooted ACs without a special bonus to AC & neither has particularly good odds to beat the trap with their reflexes.

*The cleric could use a spell.

I was simply trying to give a better, I think he used the word, cinematic example off a scout at work. (My Doctor Jones example.)

 

[Staffan]

Btw, I am not defending the scout at all. The flavour text appears a mess but not only that it seems to be treading on the Ranger/Rogue multiclass option. I'm afraid to say that it is a class that doesn't deserve to exist, even though I like the skirmish mechanic.

If it is a better way of doing a former multiclass option, I say it's a good thing.

 

[FreeTheSlaves]

If it is a better way of doing a former multiclass option, I say it's a good thing.

Where then does this leave the multi-class mechanic? You seem to be advocating a core class for every multiclass option.

 

[Viktyr Gehrig]

It's a function of niche and need: Rogues are at home in the dungeon; they find the trap and remove the trap so the party can proceed. Scouts are at home in the wilderness, where there is plenty of room to go around the trap.

Scouts don't need it.

Examples like this, where the flavor text doesn't match the rules text, is why I rarely read the flavor text anymore. Why bother reading it, when they mean the opposite of what they say?

This, I agree with-- it's a problem I've had with a number of classes. For instance, the alignment restriction on Warlocks compared to the flavor text about Warlocks resisting the dark impulses that come with their powers...

 

[Klaus]

While I agree with what you are trying to say I disagree with your example.... In your example even the fight and cleric could do that,

A scout is like Indiana Jones (in Raiders of the Lost Ark) walking into the first temple noting that stepping on certain weight sensitive plates would shoot an arrow at him.

He doesn't disable them he walks slowly around them. (but he does know they are there.)

As usual, Brother Shatterstone speaks the truth.

If you locate a trap (which usually means finding the trigger mechanism), you can bypass it.

And judging by Indy's failed attempt at avoiding the idol-trap with a bag of sand, he sucks at Disable Device...

 

[Shellman]

I still think the scouts trap finding ability doesn't make sense without disable device.

Yes, there is an advantage to knowing the trap is there, but without the ability to disable it, the rest of the party is screwed.

I guess I would either go Rogue/ Ranger or use the Wilderness Rogue variant out of UA.

 

[Crothian]

I still think the scouts trap finding ability doesn't make sense without disable device.

Yes, there is an advantage to knowing the trap is there, but without the ability to disable it, the rest of the party is screwed.

They have the ability to dissable traps, it is a cross class skill for them. They have the skill points to max out a cross class skill and they have bonus feats so if they need to they can skill focus Disable device. Scouts are not as good as rogues at it, but they can do it effectively if the player wants them to.

 

[RandomPrecision]

I still think the scouts trap finding ability doesn't make sense without disable device.

Yes, there is an advantage to knowing the trap is there, but without the ability to disable it, the rest of the party is screwed.

The scout can tell the party, "Don't walk there." Now, if you've brought the scout to help you through an urban or dungeon area where you can't just walk around a trap, you have problems for which you probably should get a rogue.

I really do like the scout as a nature-oriented rogue. Sure, there's the wilderness rogue and all, but this class completely breaks away from the rogue, in my opinion - it's a class by itself instead of a rogue variant. I wouldn't get rid of it anymore than I'd get rid of the barbarian, ranger, and druid, saying that they should be possibilities of fighters, paladins, and clerics.

 

[Warehouse23]

Just for the record, I have always considered Indianna Jones a rogue (not a thief, per se, but a charming, charasmatic rogue). Shooting the scimitar-weilding henchman-boss in Raiders is a classic example of critting on a sneak attack (the henchman lost the initiative and was conisdered flat-footed).

Now back to your regulalrly scheduled programming...

 

[Staffan]

Where then does this leave the multi-class mechanic? You seem to be advocating a core class for every multiclass option.

Not for every multiclass option, but for those representing common archetypes, sure. That also goes for the swashbuckler (fighter/rogue, though it's better done in Arcana Evolved's Unfettered class), the paladin (fighter/cleric), the ranger (fighter/druid), and so on.