Secret doors - how?

[Seeker_of_Truth]

Pretty much, yeah. If they're doors that you can identify with Passive Perception (i.e. just glancing around a room) they're not very secret, are they?

One of the time savers in 4th edition is you are now assumed to be alert and looking for things like traps, tracks, and hidden enemies. It's no longer necessary to state explicitly that you are looking for secret doors in every room and hallway. Passive perception is not just 'glancing around a room' I'd treat a time when PCs are explicitly not on alert as taking a 1 on a perception roll.

 

[deleteme123456]

I would allow players to take 20 to spend 5 minutes searching a small to medium sized room, assuming they all split up and search separately. One person searching would take longer. Perception modifiers + 20 should find most secret doors, while passive perception should not.

 

[Incenjucar]

Honestly, I'm not sure how much passive perception changes things regarding non-combat stealth, unless the DM is putting hidden things in the game which will automatically be noticed.

 

[MeMeMeMe]

Check out page 41 of the DMG, section Searching the Room.
It says that if the PCs have a minute or two to search the room, use the best possible search roll (a roll of 20 added to the best character's Perception score) and tell the players what they find.

 

[Terwox]

Check out page 41 of the DMG, section Searching the Room.
It says that if the PCs have a minute or two to search the room, use the best possible search roll (a roll of 20 added to the best character's Perception score) and tell the players what they find.

Echo for emphasis.

 

[Q1000]

Hello all, first I love secret doors; they help tell what ever story is ongoing in the dungeon. Remember, a good map of the dungeon crafted by the players can show voids that may hide secret rooms as well. Another way to intrigue your characters.

As to finding secret doors I found I had to house rule the perception skill a bit. If a character is trained in Perception she may get a free detect roll is she passes within 5’ of a secret door, panel, trap etc. Of course the roll is hidden from the players. Otherwise the standard search rules as given, I don’t use take 10 here as I don’t like auto detect.

The ritual Detect Secret Doors also helps.

Q1000

 

[Contents May Vary]

This is how I'm going to handle alerting players to the fact that there *may* be a secret door (or anything else hidden):

* I'll have one DC for the hidden thing itself.
* I'll have another LOWER DC for some clue that something is hidden.

If a player's passive perception beats the hidden item's DC, they'll find it.
Otherwise, if their passive perception beats the clue's DC, they'll find that instead.
Otherwise, they see nothing at all...

So I might have a DC of 13 for them noticing some scratches or grooves on the floor, with a DC of 16 for the secret door itself.

I've not actually tried this in a game yet, so it might not work out...

 

[med stud]

Make the secret door make sense. A secret door that leads off to a strange chamber with no context is nothing the PCs will be on the lookout for. A secret door in the BBEG's bedroom? Much more credible. As is secret door between corridors for the mysteriously-appearing-monsters-from-already-cleared-out-rooms.

 

[genshou]

With Search checks, I always assumed PCs were "taking 0"; that is, their bonus to the Search skill has to meet or exceed the DC to notice something such as a secret door. The concept of "passive searches" the way 4e does it came up in our group, but it was scrapped when I pointed out that a person actively searching has a 45% chance to do worse than someone who isn't actively searching.

When I DM I always assume the players will take 20 on every inch of the place after they clear it out, so I give them all the treasure later if they don't find it when they first explore the dungeon. However, there can be benefits to finding the treasure during the raid--never know when you might find a magic weapon capable of beating the vault guardian's DR hidden in some secret armory.

 

[DracoSuave]

The concept of "passive searches" the way 4e does it came up in our group, but it was scrapped when I pointed out that a person actively searching has a 45% chance to do worse than someone who isn't actively searching.

Except your Passive Perception doesn't go away.

Just because you chose to actively look doesn't mean you suddenly forgo your Passive Perception. It just means you didn't find anything above and beyond your normal abilities to notice stuff if you rolled lower. Makes sense too. People who are studying their surroundings aren't suddenly struck blind and deaf.