Sell me on Burning Sky.

[Rystil Arden]

Eeek. Unfortunately, while I'd love to make some suggestions, I don't have that game; I only play D&D. I'm sorry I can't be of any more help there - I think that's one thing that's goiing to have to come from fan contributions.

Here's a thought for AE, noting that I've played AE and have read the WotBS Player's Guide but not the GM's Guide (since I'm playing this one):

If you're using the Diamond Throne setting--There are several groups that could build up tension in the world of the Diamond Throne, but probably the best bet is to use the Giants vs the Dragons, since that's the big new conflict in AE. Since AE has no alignments, Leska could really show up on either side, though I'd say overthrowing the Giants is probably more likely if you want to keep her stats more-or-less-similar and convert her to a normalish race. She can just be a Giant Witch who coveted the Diamond Throne and orchestrated the fall of the current Steward, whereas to have something like a Drakha or a Mojh take over the Dragons strains disbelief. One could always make her a Dragon who overthrew the Dragons, I suppose, but that might change dynamics down the road. Admittedly, having the Inquisitors as scary Dragon servants with Evolved levels could be a cool vibe. In either case, you'll want the heroes to be located in some sort of Free City, maybe those southern free cities. Then you just convert all the statted NPCs to AE (which is admittedly a bit of work, but shouldn't be too massively difficult), perhaps make the new spells Exotic spells and give people from the appropriate regions the Exotic Spell feat for that spell as a special bonus feat, and you've got a start. The Wizard class feature for the fighting mages can just be scrapped for the country that has it and they can be known for the use of Mageblades instead of Magisters, etc. The Commander class and feats may not be balanced appropriately for AE, so a GM would have to decide whether to keep them or just leave them out, probably without affecting anything much.

 

[EditorBFG]

How to apply all of this wonderful stuff and these great looking adventures with the use of the Arcana Evolved Players Handbook instead of using the D&D books?

Do you want to use it just with Arcana Evolved, or the Diamond Throne setting specifically?

 

[Acid_crash]

Really just AE. I can skip a full adaptation of using it for the Diamond Throne setting. I just like AE more than D&D.

 

[Rystil Arden]

Really just AE. I can skip a full adaptation of using it for the Diamond Throne setting. I just like AE more than D&D.

Well, that's pretty easy then. Use the setting info from the Player's Guide and GM's Guide, but do what I said above:

Then you just convert all the statted NPCs to AE (which is admittedly a bit of work, but shouldn't be too massively difficult), perhaps make the new spells Exotic spells and give people from the appropriate regions the Exotic Spell feat for that spell as a special bonus feat, and you've got a start. The Wizard class feature for the fighting mages can just be scrapped for the country that has it and they can be known for the use of Mageblades instead of Magisters, etc. The Commander class and feats may not be balanced appropriately for AE, so a GM would have to decide whether to keep them or just leave them out, probably without affecting anything much.

Additionally, if any adventures depend on a normal D&D spell which AE doesn't have, make minor modifications (if the PCs need it) or call it an Exotic spell or Witchery ritual that the bad guys have access to (if the bad guys need to do it)

 

[Menexenus]

I started this thread off with a price comparison between a subscription to the War of the Burning Sky vs. a subscription to Dungeon magazine. I then attempted to make a value comparison of those two purchases. It seemed to me at first that a subscription to Dungeon had significantly more value for the money. But I asked those involved with the project to enlighten me further about how the Burning Sky adventure path might be superior to a Dungeon adventure path in ways I hadn't considered.

From the previous posts, here are the potential answers to my question.

A) The authors of the War of the Burning Sky are already frequent posters here on ENWorld. So it would be easy to contact them with questions (if I had any) while running the adventure path. [This point was due to Morrus, followed up by Nonlethal Force.] Shroomy pointed that Dungeon's authors post on Paizo's site, but I am not a member on that messageboard. So this does count as added value, as far as I am concerned.

B) Perhaps a more important point of comparison is that, since War of the Burning Sky is produced as a PDF, it does not have the space limitations that Dungeon magazine has. [This point was due to RangerWickett.] The editors of Dungeon are frequently complaining about the need to cut valuable material from modules due to space constraints, so I see this as a real issue. Now to be fair to Dungeon, it is generous with web enhancements (like the Age of Worms Overload). Still, I think this second point has the potential to be a great selling point.

This second point leads me to another question about War of the Burning Sky. What is the estimated page/word count of each module in the series? I happen to have Dungeon #128 sitting right in front of me as I type. The adventure path module in that magazine takes up 30 full pages. (This page count includes illustrations, maps, sidebars, and statblocks but does not include advertisements or the extra "Backdrop" article on the Free City contained in the same issue.)

For comparison's sake, can you give me an idea of the page count of a typical module in the War of the Burning Sky series? (After all, if the modules in the Burning Sky series are expected to be significantly longer than those in Dungeon magazine, that would give a frugal comparison shopper like me a reason to pay more.) I realize that most of these modules are not finished yet. So maybe you could tell me instead what guidelines you sent to your authors when you commissioned the modules?

Thanks again.

 

[Rystil Arden]

Menexenus--I think that if you compare pretty much anything adventure-wise in the RPG industry to Dungeon magazine as far as bang for your buck, Dungeon is going to come out ahead. It's due to subscriptions and volumes that most adventures can't assume.

However, let's compare to WotC adventures (since WotC is usually relatively cheaper than others)--the sale price for the entire campaign saga was $34.95. WotC's The Shattered Gates of Slaughtergarde, a short 142 page paperback adventure, is $24.95. When you look at other third party adventures, Necromancer Games comes to mind immediately for high quality adventures. Randomly looking at The Doom of Listonshire, it's a 96-page softcover for $21.99. Admittedly, you do get printed copies of these two adventures, but WotBS at the sale price is definitely a better deal in pure page per $ terms.

 

[Nightfall]

Menaxus,

Considering the fact that a) WotC makes us buy books that often turn into duds at prices that in previous years, none of us would have considered, I think getting this adventure, supporting EN World and in general making Ranger Wickett's/Ryan's life a little more hellish by CONSTANTLY emailing him, would be way better way to deal with any issues you might have buying this.

Morrus,

I think they might think you're more biased than I. I mean if I say something is good it's either a) prefaced by what I said earlier or b) they believe I won't steer them wrong.

Ryan,

So NOW do I get a cookie?

 

[Morrus]

I started this thread off with a price comparison between a subscription to the War of the Burning Sky vs. a subscription to Dungeon magazine. I then attempted to make a value comparison of those two purchases. It seemed to me at first that a subscription to Dungeon had significantly more value for the money. But I asked those involved with the project to enlighten me further about how the Burning Sky adventure path might be superior to a Dungeon adventure path in ways I hadn't considered.

In essence, you are correct. Neither we, nor anone else in the industry, have the economies of scale to match Dungeon pricewise for the cost of adventures. If "cheap adventures" is your goal, Dungeon is the place to go.

WotBS is 12 advenures or $34.99, or $2.91 per adventure. I do think that's prety darn cheap. Especially with the Campaign Guide and Players Guide thrown in, each a product in their own right.

In comparison, look at the price of, say, the Dragonlance saga or similar things. $2.91 per adventure is a rock bottom price. Dragonlance is a closer comparison in terms of what we're aiming for -we'll be having a novel of the campaign, etc., amd LOTS of expansion products (many free) going into more detail about aspects of the campaign (a Dungeon AP runs it for 12 adventures and then finishes - we'll just be gettign started!). Complete side-adventures, other adventures set during the war, products looking at organisations and places, all sorts of stuff, and much of which a subscriber is going to get for free (not all of it, though - we still have to earn a crust).

 

[Morrus]

However, let's compare to WotC adventures (since WotC is usually relatively cheaper than others)--the sale price for the entire campaign saga was $29.99. WotC's The Shattered Gates of Slaughtergarde, a short 142 page paperback adventure, is $24.95. When you look at other third party adventures, Necromancer Games comes to mind immediately for high quality adventures. Randomly looking at The Doom of Listonshire, it's a 96-page softcover for $21.99. Admittedly, you do get printed copies of these two adventures, but WotBS at the sale price is definitely a better deal in pure page per $ terms.

By a massive factor. You're lookiing at 300+ pages to start with if you only ount the adventures themselves (I don't know the exact count, but it's massive overall).

Heck, the PG and CG, for FREE, comes to half the size of the Doom of Listonshire.

 

[amethal]

I've recently downloaded the GMs guide, and from the adventure synopsis it looks like a lot of fun to run.

My home brew campaigns suffer from a loss of focus, mainly due to a conflict in styles between my players and myself (I like player choice, they (surprisingly) like more rail roading :\ ).

War of the Buring Sky will give them something of world shattering importance to concentrate on, with extremely unfortunate consequences if they mess it up.

As such, I'm not too bothered it doesn't fit very well into my homebrew. I'm not sure I want to risk my world coming to an end anyway

Still, I think moving backwards into my world's history might work.