Pathfinder 1E Sell me on Pathfinder....

[Scurvy_Platypus]

I heard the PF Fighter was improved a lot. I was hoping I could maybe allow it in the 3.5 game in case a player wanted to play a fighter, but felt the 3.5 version was underpowered & not worth playing.

I've been playing in a Pathfinder game for almost a year now. Started with the Beta and when the module we're in finishes up, we'll switch over to the Final.

Playing the Fighter in Beta was fun and all, but having looked at it in the Final?

Bleh.

It was stated before that the Final rules would look more similar to 3.5 than the Beta rules. The Fighter certainly falls into this category as far as I'm concerned. All the other classes got a bunch of cool stuff and the Fighter gets... ummm... Well, I guess you might be thrilled by the fact that he can move his "normal speed" while wearing medium armor and at level 7 he can move his normal speed while wearing Heavy.

Beta didn't have that but did have the Armor training actually giving you an AC bonus. Final nixed that though.

Beta also had the bonus from Weapon Training explicitly adding in to you CMB/CMD checks.

Ripping out a feat chain and some of the other changes (like nerfing Vital Strike) has combined to ensure that Fighters once again don't deal too much damage.

I wouldn't be so irked except they gave Sorcerers a bunch of new stuff (bloodlines and funky powers associated with them) in the Beta and didn't bother yanking those away with the Final. I guess Sorcerers were underpowered compared to Fighters.

*shrug*

I was relatively neutral about the Beta, but I won't bother running a Pathfinder game now. Only reason I'm staying in the group is that I like the people. I'd _strongly_ suggest picking up the pdf first. It's only $10 U.S. If you like what you see there, then go ahead and pick up the rulebook.

 

[pawsplay]

Fighters got a subantial boost. Normal movement in armor and a bonus to save versus fear is nice, but weapon training is very nice... +4 to hit and damage in their favorite group by level 20. The hidden boost, though, is the fact that Pathfinder characters get a few more feats, which means fighters can go deeper and broader, even picking up a few fighter feats. Also, cross-class skills are much friendlier now, so you can add a little Stealth or Diplomacy or whatever to your fighter and give him a secondary job in the party.

For the most part, classes are about the same, but with a couple of extra feats. Rogues got a nice combat boost, and the smaller skill list makes them a little stronger at scouting, too. Monks are sort of ... odd, but improved.

For my 3.5 game, I went ahead and converted the PCs to Pf, including feats, CMD, and so forth. Probably the most noticeable difference was the human wizard, who got an additional hit point per level because of the HD increase, then another for favored class.

I haven't committed to converting over to the new versions of all the spells, though.

 

[Ares]

Fighters got a subantial boost. Normal movement in armor and a bonus to save versus fear is nice, but weapon training is very nice... +4 to hit and damage in their favorite group by level 20. The hidden boost, though, is the fact that Pathfinder characters get a few more feats, which means fighters can go deeper and broader, even picking up a few fighter feats. Also, cross-class skills are much friendlier now, so you can add a little Stealth or Diplomacy or whatever to your fighter and give him a secondary job in the party.

For the most part, classes are about the same, but with a couple of extra feats. Rogues got a nice combat boost, and the smaller skill list makes them a little stronger at scouting, too. Monks are sort of ... odd, but improved.

For my 3.5 game, I went ahead and converted the PCs to Pf, including feats, CMD, and so forth. Probably the most noticeable difference was the human wizard, who got an additional hit point per level because of the HD increase, then another for favored class.

I haven't committed to converting over to the new versions of all the spells, though.

I'm sorry, I have failed my knowledge [abbreviations] check-- what is CMD?

 

[Scott DeWar]

CMD is
combat manuver defense, the counter to cmb.

here is my personal take on Pathfinder of Piazo.

We (table top game) have been using the beta version for a campain. we started as 3.5, the cnversion was easy and the differences were bewtter prefered then what we had as 3.5. if we were to want to re convert back to 3.5 pathfinder is 'backwards compatable' as there is an easy conversion back designed into the system.

for using a world or just a module that is 3.5 with pathfinder it has been noted that the monsters sometime need to be jucied up a bit.

A way around it is a system that I can't quite recall what it is right now and I am in a coffee shop right now and away from my computer. I cna be found on EN world. It was introduced by wolf ratbane, I think. the thread he introduced it on has a lot f disscussion that is heavy in what I am guessing is statistacal math so be wary of that.

I will be able to give you more when I get to my PC later.

 

[mxyzplk]

The PF core classes are bumped up a little over the pure core PHB 3.5e classes. That was done to make them equivalent in power to 3.5e core classes in reality, which once you use all the sub class powers and such are more powerful than when just the 3.5e PHB was out. So if you use PHBII, the Completes, Spell Compendium etc. then there's no power increase in PF.

I don't know if I'd go so far as to mix in base classes for the PCs, just because it would be annoying to know "how does *your* favored enemy work again?" but otherwise I'm running PF final using both 3.5e and 3e adventures with no conversion without issues. (You do have to count 3e ELs down for sure...)

 

[pawsplay]

You never have to do anything to a 3.5 monster except calculate CMB and CMD (even then, you could cheat and just use their grapple bonus, which would be "wrong" but statistically equivalent to 3.5). In practice, for the CRs to be consistent, you will probably want to give monsters the feats they are entitled to under Pf and give humanoid warriors their extra hit point.

 

[pawsplay]

I don't know if I'd go so far as to mix in base classes for the PCs, just because it would be annoying to know "how does *your* favored enemy work again?" but otherwise I'm running PF final using both 3.5e and 3e adventures with no conversion without issues. (You do have to count 3e ELs down for sure...)

You can freely mix in the Scout, Ninja, Warmage, Beguiler, and Knight (although the Knight's thunder has really been stolen by the fighter). The Marshal needs to be bumped up full BAB and d10s for hit dice, and perhaps needs a bonus combat feat every seven levels or something. You technically wouldn't even have to convert their skill lists, although that's super easy to do.

In general, Pf and 3.5 are "interface compliant." That is, two creatures could have a battle or a skill contest, irrespective of which system you decided to use.

 

[TheAuldGrump]

I am surprised that no one has brought up my favorite change - sorcerer bloodlines. Sorcerers gained not only power, but one hell of a lot more flavor, going from what I consider the dullest class in D&D to one of the most interesting in PF.

And one of the things about the pumped classes - folks are quite a bit more likely to stick with a class instead of grabbing a prestige class. PF classes are balanced, I think, against 3.5 prestige classes rather than base classes.

The Auld Grump

 

[Scott DeWar]

oops, I totally for got that fact. yeah, the scorcers rally rock with the variety of bloodlines just for starters!

A way around it is a system that I can't quite recall what it is right now and I am in a coffee shop right now and away from my computer. I cna be found on EN world. It was introduced by wolf ratbane, I think. the thread he introduced it on has a lot f disscussion that is heavy in what I am guessing is statistacal math so be wary of that.

I will be able to give you more when I get to my PC later.

the thread is started by wulf ratbane and it is called encounter design simplified. it really does simplify encounter design.

it is right here

 

[jreyst]

The Pathfinder SRD is online - and free. Check it out and see if you like the changes. Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Reference Document

You can also view the rules for free at http://www.d20pfsrd.com. That site also includes all monsters released for the Pathfinder Roleplaying game so far, as well as very, very many additional treats.

Full disclosure: I started d20pfsrd.com.