D&D 5E Should martial characters be mundane or supernatural?

[Vaalingrade]

Yeah, I don't love where the implementation went, but differentiating in the AC structure "attacks that just need to touch you" and "attacks that hit but didn't make it through to deal damage" with flat-footed AC was clean and interesting design space. A little more clarity around what bonuses went with which ACs and more discipline around bonuses in general and then broader access to attacks that cared about the different types would have been great.

Same.

I specifically miss Reflex Defense, but I came upon an issue where it didn't jive with Real Save Ends when working on my system. I settled on making touches, rays and beams require a Reflex save and let shields add to Reflex. and touches get an inherent bonus to DC to make up for putting the caster into melee.

 

[Oofta]

I miss touch AC

Right. Because we need to make dex even more OP!

 

[Irlo]

There would still be the same reasons that exist now for anybody else to take arcana as a skill.

It would be easy to make proficiency in arcana a class feature of wizards instead of a choice of class skills.

Yes, of course. I wrote sloppily -- I meant that if the arcana skill was changed to be the "wizard-only spell lore etc." upon which a wizard's effectiveness relied, there'd be no reason for the skill to exist outside of a class feature.

 

[Maxperson]

Note that the arcana skill relates to spell lore. Not wizard spell lore, but all spell lore. A wizard with expertise in arcana will know more about druid spells that the most knowledgable druid (for example). Is that okay?

Arcana is arcane spell lore. Religion covers divine spells since those are prayers. Druids also fall under religion or if you want to stretch it, nature. So no, that wouldn't be okay, which is why druids and clerics could get expertise in one of their main skill(s).

 

[Irlo]

Arcana is arcane spell lore. Religion covers divine spells since those are prayers. Druids also fall under religion or if you want to stretch it, nature. So no, that wouldn't be okay, which is why druids and clerics could get expertise in one of their main skill(s).

Hard disagree here on that! Your interpretation is not supported by the descriptors of the skills and of spellcasting in general. You're inserting a restriction that doesn't exist into the arcana skill, and you're broadening the scope of the religion and nature skills.

Cleric spells are explicitly distinct from prayers. Bards, Druids and Warlocks have arcana as a class skill. There's no categorization of spells into arcane and divine.

As I said before, I don't think the arcana skill is what you think it is.

 

[Micah Sweet]

Right. Because we need to make dex even more OP!

Balance that by removing dex bonuses to damage from ranged weapons, and maybe initiative too.

 

[Maxperson]

Hard disagree here on that! Your interpretation is not supported by the descriptors of the skills and of spellcasting in general. You're inserting a restriction that doesn't exist into the arcana skill, and you're broadening the scope of the religion and nature skills.

Cleric spells are explicitly distinct from prayers. Bards, Druids and Warlocks have arcana as a class skill. There's no categorization of spells into arcane and divine.

As I said before, I don't think the arcana skill is what you think it is.

Page 84 of the PHB "By 2nd level, you have learned to draw on divine magic through meditation and prayer to cast spells as a cleric does."

Druids and clerics change spells via prayer. Channel divinity to turn undead is prayer. Prayer is everywhere in the divine classes. And yes there are divine and arcane categories.

Page 205 of the PHB "The spells of wizards, warlocks, sorcerers, and bards are commonly called arcane magic. These spells rely on an understanding-learned or intuitive-of the workings of the Weave. The caster plucks directly at the strands of the Weave to create the desired effect. Eldritch knights and arcane tricksters also use arcane magic. The spells of clerics, druids, paladins, and rangers are called divine magic. These spellcasters' access to the Weave is mediated by divine power-gods, the divine forces of nature, or the sacred weight of a paladin's oath."

 

[Oofta]

Balance that by removing dex bonuses to damage from ranged weapons, and maybe initiative too.

There's a lot of ways to nerf dex, I guess my biggest gripe is probably the AC you can achieve, rapiers and longbows using dex only. But that's another topic.

 

[Minigiant]

Mastery came too late
Finesse shoulda been a Mastery trait. For Rapiers and Longbows.

Fighters could swap Finesse Mastery on any light one handed weapon

and Con to damage shoulda been another one for big heavy bludgeoning weapons.

 

[Raiztt]

Sure, but those systems didn't have "bounded accuracy" where a CR 20 Pit Fiend only has 19 AC.

same (effective) AC as a red dragon in B/X.