Should Str and Con be one stat?

[GSHamster]

I kind of like the idea that strength and constitution are two different stats, but I'm not sure how realistic it is. In general, there tends to be a strong correlation between the two, and I really can't think of any characters who would have a high strength but low constitution.

Does anyone have any examples (real-life/fictional) of characters that could be strong but frail, or weak but tough?

(Even writing those descriptors seems a little bit oxymoronic.)

 

[Ghendar]

Keep them separate.

A long distance runner could be very thin and not very strong but have immense constitution in order to compete in long runs. It takes huge stamina to compete in marathons, but you don't necessarily need great strength.

 

[Morrus]

A marathon runner would have a high CON, but not necessarily be physically strong. Endurance is a marathon runner's main forte.

An ex-bodybuilder who has let himself go, putting on loads of weight, could still be very strong, but be very unfit.

 

[pawsplay]

Marathon runners do not tend to be large people. Convserly, Andre the Giant could have ripped a man in half, but had to use a walker in his later years.

Men can usually lift about 50% more in most common tests of upper body strength (lower body strength is more comparable). Women live longer, and are far less prone to a number of illnesses.

 

[Crothian]

I think some examples would be body builders (high strength but not high con) and long distance runners (high con, but not high strength).

 

[GSHamster]

While that may be true, would anyone really describe a marathon runner as weak?

I have a few friends who are marathon runners, and I would say that they are generally stronger than average. They may emphasize endurance over raw strength, but I don't think I could apply the label "weak but tough" to them.

For all the other ability pairs, I can think of higher than average + lower than average examples, but not this pair.

 

[mmadsen]

Physical strength and toughness are very, very closely linked in real life -- and both are closely linked to size, which is decent predictor of drug/poison tolerance.

On the other hand, physical strength is not that closely linked to aerobic endurance -- although unhealthy, out-of-shape individuals tend to score low on both strength and endurance.

In a setting where we want physical specimens to be physical specimens, it makes sense to have a single stat for both -- especially when we have feats for endurance, etc.

 

[Michael_R_Proteau]

Tough but not stong=a lot of marathon runners. High endurance and would have high Con in game terms, but not necessarily a high strength score. Same might be said of an NFL wide receiver type, not that they are weak, but Dex and Con would be key for them moreso than physical strength.

Now strong but not necessarily tough: any boxer with a glass jaw
Also a lot of "bodybuilders" who perform for tournaments where quick feats of strenth and ability to flex attractively are the goals do not do a lot of exercises or activities that build up endurance and "toughness" so do not necessarily have high Cons.

-M

EDIT: hmm in the time it took me to type a response to the initial post several people beat me to the punch with similar answers, ah well, too slow for my own good.

 

[mmadsen]

While that may be true, would anyone really describe a marathon runner as weak?

Absolutely. The only reason they might not qualify as weak is that we now have an entire population of weak, sedentary folks to compare them against. A typical farmer or construction worker should be much stronger than an endurance athlete.

 

[pawsplay]

I have a few friends who are marathon runners, and I would say that they are generally stronger than average. They may emphasize endurance over raw strength, but I don't think I could apply the label "weak but tough" to them.

That's not the issue. Simply because they are not strong does not mean they are weak. A marathon runner is going to have a high Con, but not a high Str compared to any other fairly active person, such as a waiter.