Should Str and Con be one stat?

[GSHamster]

That's not the issue. Simply because they are not strong does not mean they are weak. A marathon runner is going to have a high Con, but not a high Str compared to any other fairly active person, such as a waiter.

I don't understand. In game terms, I'm looking for a character who would be weak and high con. A 5 Str, 16 Con type of person. Weaker than average, but tougher than average.

 

[Ry]

I always thought a game that had 3 stats would be cool:

Fortitude, Reflex, and Will

I think the weightlifter / marathon runner / glassjaw boxer distinction could be handled via feats instead.

 

[Storm Raven]

Competitive weightlifters are obviously very strong, but many have no endurance. I remember an article in Sports Illustrated (or some similar magazine) during the last Olympics where they were talking about how the competitors in weightlifting never worked on their stamina, many smoked and did other "unathlete" things, and consequently, would tire out if they did anything much longer than go to the lifting podium, do a clean-and-jerk or snatch, and walk back to the waiting area.

That seems to me to be a perfect illustration of someone with a high Strength and low Constitution.

 

[kenobi65]

In game terms, I'm looking for a character who would be weak and high con. A 5 Str, 16 Con type of person. Weaker than average, but tougher than average.

The old ladies you see in the newspaper every so often, 100 years old, never been sick a day in their lives.

 

[notjer]

People with a good fortitude tends to have a good 'con' - they're healthy but doesnt mean they're are strong. If you putt 'em together they would ruin the point of the skill "concentration" which surely are a con based skill and not strength.

I've heard of an person who joined the danish army. He was an ex-bodybuilder with drugs to improve his workout, but did stop when he joined. He was strong, yes, but he was exhausted when he walked up the staircases (15 stairs approximately).

D&D shouldn't be compared to real life anyways, it already too unrealistic. I hope examples aren't neccesary.

 

[Agent Oracle]

I don't understand. In game terms, I'm looking for a character who would be weak and high con. A 5 Str, 16 Con type of person. Weaker than average, but tougher than average.

My grandma is 103 right now. Before she retired to a community, she was a nurse for 35 (or was it 37? have to ask her this Sunday) years. She can't lift a gallon milk jug by herself any more, but when there was a flu outbreak, it didn't even slow her down. She was tending to everyone else.

Weak, but immune to everything. Low carrying capacity, high fortitude save. Low STR, high CON. It probably would have been higher if it hadn't been reduced by age penalties.

 

[Kae'Yoss]

I kind of like the idea that strength and constitution are two different stats, but I'm not sure how realistic it is.

There's that word again. "Realistic". I don't want that in a game where I want to toss around fireballs or destroy things with my mind.

It's my pet peeve. Call it reasonable, consistent with the system, but "realistic" is always loaded with "very much like it would actually be in the real world". Things can be realistic but nonsensical for RPGs, or they can be reasonable but unrealistic. They can be both realisitc and reasonable or neither.

That having been said: It would not really be realistic - or reasonable - to combine them...

A marathon runner would have a high CON, but not necessarily be physically strong.

Yeah, my uncle runs those things, and I could easily beat him up with brute strength (well, not really, but I always make him think so. Don't tell him this! )

Okay, a lot of people could, probably. Send him to play with the fairies with one strike. But he could run the strong boys to death and not break a sweat (well, probably not quite like that, but something like that)



There's another aspect to consider: It would not only make no sense, it would also be a bad idea, rules-wise, at least in my opinion: Both are quite important abilities, most characters want decent Con, many want decent Str, and will give up higher values in other ability scores for it. If you turn it into one, it will be much cheaper for those guys to buy an 18 in Strongstitution and still get other stats.

Besides, if you combine Str and Con, what about Dex? And what about the mental scores? I'd rather fuse Wis and Cha - the new stat, Charisdom, would mean that you have a strong mind that can resist control by others and assert control over others, and awareness not only for sensual clues, but for empathic ones as well.

I don't say that I want Wis/Cha fused (I'd rather have some more ability scores than to get rid of existing ones), I just say that it would work better for D&D than Str/Con.

 

[Victim]

The stats are just useful abstractions. Just look at STR. Besides melee combat, it adds to swimming, climbing, jumping, AND lifting. Do huge powerlifters and mountainclimbers have the same body type? How about swimmers? There's a bunch of different kinds of strength. The stat includes a bunch of vaguely related, but often contradictory things.

Con is also the stat of those people who lose a limb or something in an accident or animal attack and then walk like 20 miles so they can get medical attention. A high Con, low STR might not have the body to take all kinds of punishment, but they on going somehow despite that.

 

[GoodKingJayIII]

Should Str and Con be one stat?

We could call it... Strongth

 

[Plane Sailing]

Another under-appreciated example for high Str/low Con is big fat people. Not very healthy, get puffed out quickly, but my goodness can they push someone around if they realise how to get their weight behind it.

I'm not joking either!